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rami View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 2:07am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Noah you must be getting material from those who call themselves submitters, they are sect who follow a man called Rashid Ridah.

There site is full of lies, he claims to be a messenger of god on a mission i can show you quotes directly from there site. Much of what they say is misquotes and wrong interpretation of versus.

They are the people behind the Quran only theory, Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) foretold of there coming towards the end of time.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 4:33am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

you may like to read

The Probativeness of the Sunna Hujjiyya al-Sunna

Allah promised to preserve the Quran for All time in this promise is also to preserve the sunnah of rasul allah since there are many versus in the Quran which ask us to follow Allah and his mesenger. If we were to hold the beliefe that the sunnah was not preserved then we would be negating these very comands from allah and hence saying Allah did not fulifil his promise or that we are not able to cary out what he himself has asked us to do ie follow the sunnah of rasul allah (salla llahu alaihi wa sallam)

Allah's Book is filled with verses that categorically denote the probativeness of the Sunna. These verses are at least five types, although a single verse can be of more than one type.

a) Verses that indicate the obligatoriness of believing in the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him --;

b) Verses that indicate that the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- elucidates the Book and explains its wisdom in a manner that carries authority on Allah's part;

c) Verses that indicate the obligatoriness of obeying the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- in absolute terms in whatever he orders and whatever he prohibits;

d) Verses that indicate the obligatoriness of following and imitating him in all that issues from him as being examplary so as to be loved by Allah;

e) Verses indicating that Allah has tasked him with following and conveying whatever is revealed to him whether in recitative (matlu) or non-recitative form.

"And We have revealed unto you the Remembrance that you may explain to mankind that which has been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect" (16:44).

"And we have revealed the Scripture unto you only that you may explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe" (16:64).

"The Prophet is closer to the believers than their selves, and his wives are (as) their mothers" (33:6).


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 7:18am

Br. Noah,

As a Shia, I understand your concerns with the discrepencies in the collections of hadith that our Sunni brothers believe are "All Saheeh" (as I have been told many times). Here is an interesting book on the subject which gives even more then what you have discovered on this subject, http://www.rafed.net/books/other-lang/adhwaa/ (title of the book is defense of the Hadith, and is not meant to discredit any person or school of thought)

This, however, does not negate the neccesity of hadith, scholarship (in Islam) and relience on those who transmit hadith.

"6/54: Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad [18], from Ahmad ibn Ishaq [19], from Sa'dan ibn Muslim [20], from Mu`awiyah ibn `Ammar [21] , who said:

 I said to Abu `Abd Allah (A): `Between a man who narrates your traditions and establishes them among the people, (as if) inscribing them in the hearts of your followers, and a devout person from among your followers who does not narrate these traditions-which of them is better?' The Imam (A) replied: `He who narrates our traditions and thereby makes firm the hearts of our followers is better than a thousand devotees'."

SOURCE: http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/kafi/

I would encourage you to investigate the "sciene of Hadith" that was developed by the Shia scholars. The Shia do not have Mathabs, and rely only on those whom Allah (s.w.a) and the Prophet (a.s.) have ordered us to obey and love in Quran (i.e., the Ahly Al'Bayt).

History and Development of the Science of Hadith (Sunni and Shia)

http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/index.htm

Methods of Religious Thought in Islam by Allamah Muhammad Husayn Tabatabai (the greatest Islamic scholar of his time, May Allah be pleased with him)

http://al-islam.org/mot/default.asp?url=methods.htm

Salam

 

 

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 9:27am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

You may not know this br but it is said that roughly 40% of shia hadith are outright fabrications, so please do not promote shia scholarship in an atempt to refute what the majority of muslims accept, That site is not reliable in any sence it misquotes and twists arguments to suit its ends like much of the shia literuture dealing with sunni beliefs i have not seen a scholarly analysis yet from our shia br's just more hatred for sahaba and the wives of the prophet.

We do not hold Shia islam as a fifth school of thought.

I remind you this is a sunni site please keep all posts which deal with shia and sunni dialogue to the relavent section.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Noah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 12:48pm
Peace family

Quote You may not know this br but it is said that roughly 40% of shia hadith are outright fabrications


OMG...i hopy you can see the ironi present here yourself.

Peace
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MOCKBA View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 8:39pm

Bismillah

The Shi'a discord, and rationale behind multi-layered approach to understanding the Messenger (peace be upon him) and the Message can be studied in an appropriate discussion.

MOCKBA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 9:57pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

There is no irony brother the shia rejected many companions and the prophets wives so we are talking about a very small ahadith colection nothing comparable to what the Sunni record is. They were known for fabricating ahadith with the chain of naration to suport there claims of imamat among other heretical beliefs such as the Quran not being preserved.

Many shia groups were heretical so it is a lot harder to verify accounts from there sources.

You are right br Mockba we are discussing Quran alone theory not sunni shia dialogue.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2005 at 11:57am

There is no irony brother the shia rejected many companions and the prophets wives so we are talking about a very small ahadith colection nothing comparable to what the Sunni record is.

We reject "companions" as being more important than the Prophet's (PBUH) own BLOOD LINE.  How shameful of you that you don't.  The only accurate hadith is that of the Imam Ali (AS). The rest is rhetoric made up by sunni/salfi followers who are probably direct descendents of yazeed (LAUH).  Lies that have been carried through the generations steming from the murder of the Imam Husein (AS) and his family at Karbalah.  Bukhari is filled with inaccuracies. There is plenty of Sunni hadith and scholars who acknowledge the Ahl Elbeit's rightful position in Islam over "companions".  Stop spreading hate- how shameful of you to skew Islam.

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