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Sanjiv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanjiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2005 at 7:13am

The external Kamma could be other beings too that intend to harm us. It is more meritorious to refrain from harming others in return.

 

I suppose this explanation will have to do. If I find another way to explain Kamma I will post it as soon as possible I have run out of ideas to explain it.

Thanks for the website I�ll take a peek.

 

I found the The Idiots Guide website. They have subjects on just about anything from Astronomy, Finance even Islam for idiots like me. Just type your search and you might be lucky.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam 2nd Edition 

Good books these are very concise.

I�ll put my references down and thanks for the reply regarding the Bibliography and Koran AhmadJoyia. I'll explain beliefs in another posting from various points of view.

 

  • Narada T, . 1982,Buddhism in a Nutshell, The Corporate Body of the Buddha Educational foundation (TCBBEF), Taiwan, pg26-pg33
  • Ven U. Thittila, .1996,Gems of Buddhist Wisdom, (TCBBEF), Taiwan, pg129-pg135
  • Gary Gach, . 2004,The Complete Idiot�s Guide To Understanding Buddhism, Alpha Books, U.S.A, pg55-pg56

http://www.idiotsguides.com/

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020912.html

 

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanjiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 4:54am

It is interesting how we define religion especially in relation to Buddhism and Hinduism to some degree since it is not a �system of faith�. It does not require worship or prayer owing any obedience or allegiance to a higher power or the Buddha himself.

 

The Buddha (wisdom and knowledge) was not a supernatural being. He did not claim to be under the monopoly of higher spirits or deities as believed by some to achieve Nirvana or Nibbana (cessation to extuinguish). Nibbana is not otherworldly or a transcendental state but it is something that can be achieved in this life rather than weighting for fruition in a supposed rebirth or afterlife.

 

He achieved Nibbana through his own mental exertion. He is not a saviour as such who goes freeing other beings from their woes. The Buddha discourages reliance on supernatural powers and others since it is a surrender of ones own efforts and responsibilities. He does not claim to have absolute truth but rather encourages devotees to use their own rationale and based on their own analysis think what they see fit. 

 

Self dependence is emphasized by the Buddha for ones own deliverance and purity of mind depends on oneself. Through his sermons he makes plain the relationship with his followers pointing out the importance of self �reliance and individual striving, the Buddha states in exhorting his disciples to be self-reliant in the Parinibb�na Sutta: �Be ye islands unto yourselves, be ye a refuge unto yourselves, seek not for refuge in others�. Furthermore the Buddha does not elevate his status amongst other known religious teachers or prophets at that time. He tells us anybody may achieve Nibbana if someone makes the necessary exertion.

 

�The Buddha does not call men wretched sinners but he gladdens them by saying that they are pure in conception�. According to the Buddha the �world is not wicked but is deluded by ignorance". Instead of reserving the exalted state to himself he encourages others to practice a wholesome and compassionate way of life since Buddhahood is within all who aspire to be one. One who aspires to become a Buddha is called a Bodhisattva.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2005 at 8:45am

Dear Bro Sanjiv,

I really couldn't understand your views on the karma with regard to intentions or am I missing something here? Secondly, from your description of Gotama buddha's teachings, I really don't understand the significance of Gotama, especially once we know that there were Buddhas before and after him. Thirdly, your reply suggest that you belong to Hinayana (Lesser Vehicle) branch of buddhaism, can you elaborate as what do you mean by Nirvana/Nibbana?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanjiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2005 at 11:15pm

Another mistake I said Nirvana/Nibbana to mean wisdom and knowledge, it should be replaced by Buddha. Nirvana or Nibbana actually means cessation or to extinguish.Yes there were Buddha�s before Siddhartha I don�t know how many but years of seclusion and the complexity of such an undertaking made it difficult to explain such a way of thought. Even I had trouble trying to explain the meaning of achieving Buddhahood when I was in my teens.

 

The importance of Siddhartha Gautama is quite significant as it was he who was first to be able to describe the best way to end suffering. Now suffering can mean hatred, greed, craving, sadness these are mental sufferings and also we can include physical suffering sickness and old age. Off course we can�t do much about physical suffering but a good state of mind and positive attitude can help to deal with such situations with contentment. The extinguishing of these mental delusions is called Nibbana.

 

Mahayana until recently being the larger of the two major branches in Buddhism had a significant impact on most Buddhist schools of thought. It exists now primarily in Vietnam, Cambodia, Japan some parts of China and also dotted throughout the Asian subcontinent. Prior to the 11th century Mahayana had been wide spread as far as Central Asia (Afghanistan, northern parts of Persia, Hindu Kush region and the countries north to Afghanistan). 

 

According to Mahayana and most Buddhists the extinguishing of such mental delusions leads to the escape of the Samsara that is the escape of the cycle of rebirth. Some Buddhists from Zen practices and Theravada may emphasize reincarnation based on their understanding. Generally speaking if in your undertaking of a wholesome nature (Dhamma or Dharma that which is natural) leads you to believe that reincarnation and God exists that�s fine according to Buddhism since it�s on your own investigation not of others.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:38am
Originally posted by Sanjiv Sanjiv wrote:

Another mistake I said Nirvana/Nibbana to mean wisdom and knowledge, it should be replaced by Buddha. Nirvana or Nibbana actually means cessation or to extinguish.

Thanks for your correction as it was kind of confusing, otherwise.

Quote

Yes there were Buddha�s before Siddhartha I don�t know how many but years of seclusion and the complexity of such an undertaking made it difficult to explain such a way of thought. Even I had trouble trying to explain the meaning of achieving Buddhahood when I was in my teens.

So do you mean, the seclusion and complexity has made it difficult to find the original message of Gotama or what?

Quote

The importance of Siddhartha Gautama is quite significant as it was he who was first to be able to describe the best way to end suffering. Now suffering can mean hatred, greed, craving, sadness these are mental sufferings and also we can include physical suffering sickness and old age. Off course we can�t do much about physical suffering but a good state of mind and positive attitude can help to deal with such situations with contentment. The extinguishing of these mental delusions is called Nibbana.

But, I think, you have just implied that the teachings of Gotama are quite difficult to discern due to seclusion and complexity; then from where do you get this "best way" to achieve Nibbana? Secondly, your message implies, as I think, Gotama didn't bring any new doctrine or message to the people as his Buddhahood was not much different than Buddhists before and after him. This leads to other important questions, such as: Since Gotama was basically a Hindu, did he ever denounced basic doctrine of hinduism? or Did he ever rejected the holy books of hinduism, such as Vedas, and other epics? If the answer is 'No', then how do you see yourself separated from hinduism. My this question is, probably, originating from my lack of understanding of the two religions (hinduism and buddhaism) especially once you say that following the scriptures is not obligatory on the followers of these religions in them. Can you elaborate on this comment as well? I mean, without these scriptures, from where does come the guidance? For example, if you don't follow Triptika, how would you assume that you are following the 'best way' of Gotama? Hence to follow Gotama's way i.e. you say the "best way", one has to follow his teachings which are collected in the book form known to us as Tripitika. So, those who follow these traditions of Gotama, are called Buddists. Am I correct? Can you elaborate on it?

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Mahayana until recently being the larger of the two major branches in Buddhism had a significant impact on most Buddhist schools of thought. It exists now primarily in Vietnam, Cambodia, Japan some parts of China and also dotted throughout the Asian subcontinent. Prior to the 11th century Mahayana had been wide spread as far as Central Asia (Afghanistan, northern parts of Persia, Hindu Kush region and the countries north to Afghanistan). 

 

According to Mahayana and most Buddhists the extinguishing of such mental delusions leads to the escape of the Samsara that is the escape of the cycle of rebirth. Some Buddhists from Zen practices and Theravada may emphasize reincarnation based on their understanding. Generally speaking if in your undertaking of a wholesome nature (Dhamma or Dharma that which is natural) leads you to believe that reincarnation and God exists that�s fine according to Buddhism since it�s on your own investigation not of others.

I really don't understand in the point of discussing Mahayana once you have not clarified your inclination of believing it? So, if you don't believe in it, then its kind of little use for us in our discussions. Tell me something about Buddhaism in which you also believe to be true. Thanks for your help and patience to my questions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanjiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2005 at 5:38am

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

I really couldn't understand your views on the karma with regard to intentions or am I missing something here?

Buddhism is mainly concerned about Kamma Niy�ma and Kamma Citta Niy�ma since these are the ones that we have control over. Check definitions in my first posting. We must have deliverance to fulfil the intention; some intentions require a greater self-effort than others. Here�s a simple analogy preparation for an exam requires a lot more self-effort than making a cup of tea if we don�t there is no one else that can do it for you apart from yourself.

 

I think most people would agree what we now think and feel is due to the way we were brought up. In other words whatever thoughts we have now are likely to shape what we are like (the way we think and act) in future. You will find one who speaks gently of others and is kind generally has a history of doing good deeds, being patient this all shapes what he/she is now. Similarly one who speaks foul of another and is disruptive has a history of doing bad deeds, engages in illicit activities etc. This does not mean a bad person will always remain bad. In other words if you truly take the time to recognise your own faults and through deliverance and self effort we attempt to break whatever habit we have you condition the mind for purification of thoughts and compassion.

 

You gave a example above regarding a office calculator AhmadJoyia. Suppose the calculator was stolen on purpose the results of this action only, in the mind might arise a guilty conscience, we may feel the urge to return it back on this guilt and admit our fault or we might get aroused by this act which can in turn be a precursor or conditioning for future bad deeds a robbery etc. Don�t get confused with Kamma as being an almighty punisher or praiser for things that we do, any external accidents are to do with changes beyond our control. What we have control over is our own minds, back to your example we can either choose to return the calculator and admit our fault or get into the bad habit of stealing. Offcourse if we were to take it by accident then one would naturally assume if you had a high standard of ethics you would return it back.

 

In the definitions Kamma is cause and effect, which obviously means there will be processes of change. See examples given so far. Even if we were to break down the steps even further to fractions of a second there are processes of change that result in some outcome that�s what I mean by Kamma is a continuum.

 

I think I exhausted the possibilities of explaining Kamma with regard to human behaviour but of course if I find another way of explaining it to you I�ll post it soon if you like. I�ll respond to your other post soon.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2005 at 10:49am

My Dear Bro Sanjiv,

Though I leave it for you to respond to my last comments, but like to comment upon Kamma as what you have defined or explained that its a continuum. However, in practice we don't see this continuum being applied all the time. Those who are evil, they keep on doing their mischiefs, at times without any check and balance or what you call as action / reaction kind of thing. Those who are oppressors, keep on going in their oppressions of others without hesitation. So where is this Kamma? It seems that it is not being applied ubiquitously.

In my example of calculator, I have given the situation where after committing an act, I didn't have much time to react and got died. Hence, all my Kamma ceased to continue and shall now reflect on either on my action or on my intention. It is in this situation that I needed your comments. However, if I am not wrong, you would propose my kamma in reaction to my action and no weightage to my intentions at all. Is this correct view of your definition of Kamma? Kindly be specific to this example, if you can. Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sanjiv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2005 at 6:41am

Sorry for the big delay in my response�s get caught up in uni work as usual. I know it can get a bit frustrating but I�m in third year now so big tasks to accomplish.

 

I think part of the difficulty in understanding the Buddha�s teaching for me personally for one I was told mystical stories about him and the state of Buddhahood wasn�t really made clear to me. Things like can a Buddha float six inches above ground can he really heal the wounded were questions that perplexed me as a younger person. Utter devotion to the faith without questioning the why of some issues such as reincarnation, God etc also led me to believe these things as true without the analysis. It soon came to my realization that the Buddha encouraged doubt on his own teachings so that any devotee would do his own self-investigation on the teachings, which is why the Tripitaka is not regarded as the only way since it is recognized guidance can come from anyone or anything but remember the devotee should do his own investigation on any claims before diving straight into his/her own way of practice. The Tripitaka itself contains sermons done by the Buddha and was compiled sometime after his death by some 500 or so faithful disciples and laymen. Whether we get guidance from a book or by word of mouth or whatever it doesn�t matter.

 

It�s is also recognized that the Siddhartha Gautama made the effort to spread the teachings by doing monthly retreats around the Ganges spreading what he had learnt from his earlier teaches and things he found for himself. In ancient Indian customs it was characteristic in those times for noble men once they had completed their family and social duties to investigate a harmonious way of life this quite characteristic pre Aryan cultural influences. I say cultural influences since there were disputes whether the Aryans came by force or peacefully settled in around Northern parts of India around 2500BC to 4000BC, the gathering of recent evidence suggests it was peaceful. Most noblemen were at old age when embarking on such a journey that if at all they had found a way to spiritual harmony they were to weak to spread their findings by foot but rather had students who were willing enough to learn what they had learned come to them. Most sages preferred to teach one student at a time. I am told by our Malaysian Bhante of one Buddha prior to the birth of Siddhartha Gotama strictly speaking Sambuddha I don�t know the specifics of what he taught but he only taught his closest disciples which numbered from memory about five to ten. Siddhartha embarked on his journey at a very early age 29 compared to most other sages around their sixties and seventies. Life expectancy in India in those days for some sages was up to around 80 and past 90 in some cases.

 

It�s important that the Buddha does not encourage others to denounce other beliefs since it�s highly disrespectful for anyone to do such a thing even if you don't believe in that faith. The Buddha himself dropped most of his beliefs and started anew but he encourages others to analyze for themselves before making any rash decision.

 

I think to get a fair understanding of the struggle some noblemen went to I see it fit to tell Siddhartha�s story. Of course with his own struggle his teachings are so freely available to analyze and doubt or perhaps believe after his death.

 

  • Peter D. Santina, . 1984,Fundamentals Of Buddhism, (TCBBEF), Taiwan, pg12-pg19
  • Gary Gach, . 2004,The Complete Idiot�s Guide to Buddhism, Alpha Books, U.S.A, pg6-pg9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_invasion_theory



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