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The treatment of women

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Salams_wife View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salams_wife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2008 at 4:31pm

asalamu alaykum sister lovesakeenah,

Everything you said is so true and isn't discussed enough.  Thankyou for sharing your view as well and inshallah you do write more on that topic.  I would love to read it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2008 at 11:26pm

 

 Everything written by lovesakeenah is 100% correct. If man does not want to get into trouble then he should give maximum facility in the house to the lady. That will keep her happy. It will keep the husband also happy. In that case, the wife should not make the husband feel sad for anything.

 Wife should look after the wishes of the husband. The house should run as directed by the husband but it should be run by the wife and husband should not stand on her head for every little thing.

 Wife should be given enough funds to run the house and she should have security of living. There should be assurance to the wife of continous living accommodation no matter what happens. If the man makes or buys a house and they have children then it should (if possible) the house should be in the name of the wife.

 It is true that muslims (husbands and wives) both need to be trained according to laws of Quran & Sunnah. Some men try to misuse the wife as if it was a piece of shoe. I will post more soon,Insha Allah,  if I can get hold of the right material that i heard some where.

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2008 at 12:49am
Since the creation of this thread I have had this burning desire to understand what women want in a man for my own personal sake. Since then after reading good responses (which I've had the priviledge reading) I have come to the conclusion that in my own personal life I've given up on women and trying to understand them. Although I believe women are wonderful life giving creatures of God I also believe women can be coniving anf diabolical like men this quality is not limited to muslim women either.

Edited by Israfil
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lovesakeenah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lovesakeenah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2008 at 4:55am

As-salaam alaykum warahamatullah wabarakatuh

Bro.Israfil,don't throw away the baby with the bath water.Giving up on women isn't a 'solution'.It is a'denial',it's like running away from the 'inevitable.Whichever way you look at it,whether you get married or remain a celibate,you'd have to relate with women in your own family.You must have a mother,perhaps a sister,an aunt a paternal or maternal grannny, a neighbour,a colleague or a fellow sister in faith(like we here even though we don't see physically)&the list goes on.

If you decided to neglect womenfolk on claim of their complexity,what do you think would happen if all women did the same?

It is not easy to get over a hurt,but it's not the end of the world.And just like we agreed that you can't judge "all men" by the actions of a few,the same rule should apply to the women.

Humans generally are a complex being,irrespective of the gender.We live with domestic animals&understand them easily.it's not the same case with humans&that's the way nature has designed it.

Even if you were disappointed in the action of a number of women,simultaneously;it doesn't suffice to say 'every woman is that way.For instance,if you're Asian,you can't judge European women according to the acts of Asian women.And the same goes for Americans or African women.This is not even mentioning the diversities in culture,customs&traditions.Should we delve into religion?You'd realize that it's almost inexhaustible.You would find that a sample of one woman each from all these Continents would differ in characters,traits&attitudes.

If you haven't gone beyond your home country or your country of resident,you can't make a blanket judgement.You shouldn't give up because if every woman was as coniving&unpredictable as you said,other men wouldn't have wives nor would there be multiplication of the human race.

If each woman here also starts to relate their different experiences in the hands of men,you'd feel disgusted&disappointed.

Some men abuse their wives,emotionally&physically.Some women still get the courage to're-marry' after horrifying experiences in the hands of men.They could as well discard that idea&decide to remain unmarried.But you know,life isn't that simple.Some decisions are made not just in 'our own' personal interest,but in consideration of other factos such as family,religion to mention a few.

Am not just directing this post to you,but to everyone who had been forced to make a 'blanket judgement'.We've all in one way or the other had our own share of life's lessons.

May Allah continue to strenghten us&guide us aright.

"I have conviction that Allah has power over everything.Verily!Allah's knowledge includes and encompasses everything".
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2008 at 6:40am

Yes there are conniving women. And there areconniving men.. Sad as a reality isn't it?

Funnily, I have a distrust of men. That does not mean that thee are not good men byany means. But men appear to be from Mars.. lol

A huge part is that generally men and women want certain things and how it is demonstrated or fufilled is not often complementary. Women discuss feelings and chat more easily. Men less so.

As a girl growing up in the west. I thought the only thing men wanted was sex with nothing of caring involved. As a nonMuslim there is of course intermingling.   How many men (boys and young men) would tell me they "loved" me upon first meeting.  All in one aim. It made me very wary of men. It made me tihnk that all men look at with women is the superficial... what they are like (how they look) on the outside.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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lovesakeenah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lovesakeenah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:38am

Am sorry I can't go into details,but I've had my fair share as well.But it hasn't stopped me from being who I truly am.I can't let some ingrates confuse me that ther're no good men around.Though,they might be hard to find.I don't mean to sound controversial,but I have equally learnt over time that even being religious doesn't make anyone "infallible".That attribute belongs to Allah only.I've been privileged to listen to the ordeals of some Sisters&I just had to tell them to take solace in Allah&expect reward from him.

Sis.Hayfa,it doesn't happen in the West alone.But Africans also have youths who have been influenced by the Western world& some,just being who they really are.You're right to think 'all men want is sex,as a teenager'.I mean,that's just what we see all around,till date.Sorry if am drifting away from the main topic here.There're teenage pregnancies flying around like the air we breathe in.And loads of bastards.So,you were not wrong to think that way cos ifwe want to look at it,how many of those 'relationships' ends up in marriage?

"I have conviction that Allah has power over everything.Verily!Allah's knowledge includes and encompasses everything".
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2008 at 1:22am

lovesakeenah,

Very nice post but I may disagree with you on several points. Without involving any of my own clinical studies I'll relate to you my own observations of the many people (of many ethnic and national origins) I've came across to. I would like to first acknowledge in agreeing with you that you are right and in exclaiming the truth that all human beings are different. From the patterns of our fingers to the pigmentations of our skins we all have unique qualities. HOWEVER, as I've mentioned already I've observed many personalities and although there are varying differences there are what I've come to known, "common behavior."

For example with respect to a traditional and conservative setting women want men for certain things such as food, and shelter as well as security (security I define as the basic emotional elements e.g. trust, love, affection) in both the physical and emotional aspect. But these basic necessities I find are mostly common to women ( a generalizable fact as it appears from here).Like most relationships that fail there is a sense of defensiveness in both men and women and this is a common reaction to the failure of a relationship in which the emotion (what Freud would call the ego) protects itself from being hurt again thereby refraining from the natural reaction of allowing someone to get close.

but unfortunately lovesakeenah you have extended your own version of truth from what I meant in such a small paragraph in my previous post. What I truly meant was that instead of holding women in such high esteem as I've done in the past I have instead concluded that women are on the same level as men in the sense of emotional output. Women much like men, are diabolical coniving and deceiving. I am even tempted to tip the scale in favor of women in this respect but because (I do not know every single woman on the planet so a generalization of this magnitude would be false). I have recently conseled women who have confessed to lying to their ex husbands on child support. I have spoken with women who have confessed to lying about rape just to keep a man. I have spoken with women who lie cheat and steal. Of course this is not to say a man does not do this but the point is, is that with respect to my own faith I have come to the realization that I shouldn't have to bend over backwards for a women and although women should be treated with absolute equal respect, they should also do the same for a man.

For example if a man takes care of a woman a woman shoudl take care of a man. Too many times I've spoken with Muslimahs who interpret the Islamic doctrine concerning the treatment of women as a way of "milking" the man. Of course this is limited to my own experience and not generalizable to everyone else but my point is it exist. In addition, so many times women use bearing children as a reaosn to use against this (the equal treatement in relationships) and I would say that conceiving a child is a choice both partners made and should not be used as leverage against the other in arguments rather, it should be a celebration and support between both participants.

Just because women give birth doesn't mean women are extra special and should be treated special because women in the sense of giving birth are as important as men.

Lovesakeenah you said: Giving up on women isn't a 'solution'.It is a'denial'

Hmmm  how am I in "denial?" I said in my own personal life ( not my clinical practice) I've given up on women  and trying to understand them but this is not to say I do not want a relationship with a woman. The human personality is too complex to try to understand in a friendly way, rather, I'd just try to take what I can get and go from there. However, despite your opposition to my generalization you did not address the following: "Funnily, I have a distrust of men"

With the same tone I have a distrust of women as well. I don't even trust Muslims. Being in the sam religion as me does not make one impervious to doing ill will to other humans. I believe if women wanted to, could really do much psychological damage to men and could really abuse the Western legal system. Because women have some say in the law women can and could manipulate the  western legal system. Again as I've said before I've spoken with women who have falsified their stories for an agenda this is not to say men haven't but to point out that women are just like men in every sense and this have a commonality among them.

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lovesakeenah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lovesakeenah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2008 at 7:11am

"Your statement of'giving up on women' was ambigious&I just assumed,'you didn't want anything to do with women,personally or professionally'.Sorry for the wrong assumption.

Just like I said earlier,the examples you've stated about the'unthinkable things' women do isn't prevalent where I come from.Now,am not trying to be self-righteous here,but I've grown to a point in my life where'disappointments' by humans like myself doesn't throw me off balance.So,the distrust I have wasn't what I chose,but it was a resolution I had to make to keep my sanity as I can't deal with the thought of'infidelity' in relationships.I don't distrust'all the men' I've known in my life,like my father,brother,cousins&the rest.But,I've had my fair share of 'heartbreaks'& I know it might be hard to convince you,but the fault wasn't mine.That am very clear&certain about.I grew to a point of wanting to pursue a career&just live my life without having to worry about someone hurting me,especially when the person in question is a close relation.

Where I come from,Muslimahs marry for the sake of Allah.They bear all the baggage that comes with marital bliss&heartaches,astagfirullah.They hang-in-there.They're not as mean as some women who woud kill their husbands for 'alimony'(we don't even have that).They carry on with life like everything's fine,when it's actually not.I look at some of these women(Muslimahs)&pray that Allah rewards them for their patience&forbearance.

In our non-Islamic world on the other hand,I have seen same women with love&devotion to their marriages.I can't really begin to narrate the very irritating incidents I had been witness to.How I ask myself,"what would I ever do with men,if not for Islam"?I mean,I have seen these things& as much as I agree that women could be deceitful,manipulative&impatient(esp where material things are concerned); I have seen far worse of men&just had to learn to accept the fact that,"humans would always be humans".

I rest my case!!

"I have conviction that Allah has power over everything.Verily!Allah's knowledge includes and encompasses everything".
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