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The treatment of women

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2008 at 8:40am

Ok Angel this is where we disagree slightly getting off topic here......

Women in abusive relationships KNOW they are being abused whether its verbally or physically they know in their minds its abnormal. However research has shown that some women stay in abusive relationships because its a formative pattern from a previous abusive relationship in childhood. In these instances it may not seem abnormal to the person per se since this is an experience they have been through before they know (through various psychological studies) women in abusive relationships are distressed and mentally unstable. That in itself shows they know something is wrong even if its an indirect knowledge.

With regards to men studies have shown that men who abuse have been abused themselves in childhood. Also, if the father or mother is seen as the abuser at home, a child going through these experiences may believe such a behavior maybe acceptable. But all of which are factors dependent upont the individual's environment. So when you say "men need to learn why they abuse women so they can break the cycle" even if you learn something change is quite different than actually learning it. Changing one's own behavior (or views) is the most difficult. The similitude of this is like a man trying to smash concrete with a small hammer. Change can only be made when drastic measures to change are done.

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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

Ok Angel this is where we disagree slightly getting off topic here......

Women in abusive relationships KNOW they are being abused whether its verbally or physically they know in their minds its abnormal. However research has shown that some women stay in abusive relationships because its a formative pattern from a previous abusive relationship in childhood. In these instances it may not seem abnormal to the person per se since this is an experience they have been through before they know (through various psychological studies) women in abusive relationships are distressed and mentally unstable. That in itself shows they know something is wrong even if its an indirect knowledge.

There's no disagreement here Israfil.

I've gone one step furthur than what you mentioned, I thought you been a psychology major would know that but I guess not. You seemed to know it for men. Some of those who are abused would know its wrong because they would have a feeling that something is not right but cannot get out of it or break the cycle of repeated bad/abusive relationships - they need to know why and where it came from before they can break the cycle, you need to address that until you do then the cycle stays. 

Quote With regards to men studies have shown that men who abuse have been abused themselves in childhood. Also, if the father or mother is seen as the abuser at home, a child going through these experiences may believe such a behavior maybe acceptable. But all of which are factors dependent upont the individual's environment.

I know.

Quote So when you say "men need to learn why they abuse women so they can break the cycle" even if you learn something change is quite different than actually learning it. Changing one's own behavior (or views) is the most difficult. The similitude of this is like a man trying to smash concrete with a small hammer. Change can only be made when drastic measures to change are done.

Why couldn't you apply this to women,  

I've said pretty much the same thing for which you agreed with me. But you seem to be on the side that you think because women "know" they need / should be able to break the cycle like that. its not entirely true and or that easy, like I said you need to KNOW why (and I've talked about the past for which you agreed) & that takes counselling.

So why don't you seem to be on the same side as me anymore?



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:58am

Because the wording was not in agreement with what I had intended but perhaps I saw it differently. I disagree with your pressumption of knowing and doing. I've recently learned through faculty members that knowing and doing are separate things even though in many instances we tend to think one transitions to the other such as if  I know my ABC's I'll be able to read in which case it is not always true. Even women who get counseling are not always going to break the cycle and what I mean by the comment "sometimes it takes drastic measures" I'm referring to an act where the woman's life is immediate danger and the individual has to be forcibly moved into a different environment for their own safety. Unless you have clinical experience you won't know what I'm talking about.

Remember Angel you wrote two sentence in the post I responded and now you wrote a whole paragraph so maybe you need to be more thourough with your post. It is not to say I don't agree with you I don't agree with your presentation, besides this is off topic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2008 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

Because the wording was not in agreement with what I had intended but perhaps I saw it differently. I disagree with your pressumption of knowing and doing. I've recently learned through faculty members that knowing and doing are separate things even though in many instances we tend to think one transitions to the other such as if  I know my ABC's I'll be able to read in which case it is not always true. Even women who get counseling are not always going to break the cycle and what I mean by the comment "sometimes it takes drastic measures" I'm referring to an act where the woman's life is immediate danger and the individual has to be forcibly moved into a different environment for their own safety. Unless you have clinical experience you won't know what I'm talking about.

Remember Angel you wrote two sentence in the post I responded and now you wrote a whole paragraph so maybe you need to be more thourough with your post. It is not to say I don't agree with you I don't agree with your presentation, besides this is off topic.

maybe I do need to be more thorough, the reason why I said one sentence about men needing to learn also why they abuse, is so I wouldn't go off track and to quickly counter-balance you.

As for presentation i never claimed that i'm a great writer.

Back to the issues. What you explained in the above paragraph is something i've known for some time. I know couselling will not always work for some, I know there is a difference between knowing and doing and i also know that knowing your abc's is not going to make you read.

I never assumed/claimed that counselling will always work.

I never presumped that knowing and doing is one. I kept on saying that there is knowing and then there's "KNOWING" which only in many cases couselling will bring about. I did agree with you that some women will know that is not right but they need to know why they cannot break the cycle and couselling will help. You went on about women know so they need to break the cycle, to do. I just kept on that it doesn't really work that way. 



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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