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Angela View Drop Down
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I would like to point out here that my Church has rejected the Trinity.  And all Prophets have always prayed to Heavenly Father.  We do accept Jesus as the Son of God, however, we do not believe he was God Incarnate.  Another reason "traditional" Christians reject our Christianity.
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Hi Nur,
 
People from the times of the Old Testament prayed to God, but they knew (it was revealed to them), that a Messiah would be born.  They were fully aware that He was coming in the future.
 
Peace to you,
Patty
 
Yes. I believe that the people of old times prayed to God. The God of the whole universe that created the first person Adam till the last person on earth and the whole of the universe.
 
Each and everyone of us were born to worship a God, some kind of God, even people from the middle of Amazon or Africa, they knew that there is a Supreme Being that created us, that has power of us, that control our lives.
 
I believe the reason we are born into this earth was to worship God. Spiritually, our relationship with God is similar.  I mean, the experience of His nearness, His spiritual connection with our souls, are similar. There is not much difference in the emotion or the feeling of His nearness. I know you love God, same like me, we love God. Our connection with Him is true, no one can deny that.
The only difference is that some worship The Creator directly, while others worship Him thru a creation of His.
 
Another question. Why is the Messiah sent for?
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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WEll we went from hair covering and religious aspects in it to the trinity... hmmm
 
never a dull moment
 
You know back in the 50s my mom met the pope at the Vatican. He wore this lacey thing on her head.. its actually a funny picture to see... lol
 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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PattyaMainer View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:

Originally posted by PattyaMainer PattyaMainer wrote:

...As far as Mary being the Mother of God, Yes I do believe she is the Mother of God, because as a Catholic I believe in the Holy Trinity.  In the Trinity, there are not three separate Gods as many mistakenly think we believe......there are three totally unique entities, which join together to form ONE God.  There is God, the first person of the Trinity.   Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Holy Trinity.  These three unite to form the triune Godhead. 
 
 To Patty
 
Let us look at Mark 12:29 "The first of all the commandments is, Here, O Israel:  The Lord our God is one Lord."  If trinity was a valid belief, then Mark 12:29 would have said "God is three in one".
 
 
Originally posted by PattyaMainer PattyaMainer wrote:

Based on my belief, and this is also the belief of most Protestants, I would say, yes, I do believe Mary is the Mother of God.   But she is in no way equal to God, nor do we pray to her or anyone other than God (which includes Jesus.)  We "ask" Mary to pray for us.  We petition her to "go to her son and intercede to Him on our behalf."  We do this because she is "blessed", as is stated in the Gospel of St. Luke, which is where the Ave Maria, or Hail Mary originates.   It is quite like me asking a friend to pray for me when I am having medical testing or surgery performed.  I am not praying to the friend to heal me, I am only requesting that my friend pray (to God) to help me through my ordeal.
 
I hope this is of some interest and help to you.
 
Patty
 
 You should directly ask God without any intermediarier.
 
 Visit
 
 Mary Worship?
 A Study of Catholic Practice and Doctrine
 Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)
 
 
 
 
Dear Ali,
 
I have just said our Lord is ONE Lord.  I am a wife, mother and grandmother.....but I am one human being.  Let's be a little realistic for a change here.  We could conceivably discuss the Holy Trinity for years, and it won't make one iota of difference in what you believe or what I believe. I understand the Trinity and have FAITH that it is true.  You do not.  We simply disagree on this doctrine.
 
You should not tell me what I should do.  I DO pray directly to Our Lord and God.  I also choose to ask others to please pray for me.  We often hear where we have been asked to "pray for the victims and their family of (for instance) earthquakes or floods, etc.  That is exactly the same thing.  Why not just pray directly to God?  Because there is POWER in prayers!  Jesus says in the Bible, "where TWO OR MORE are gathered together (in prayer) in my name, there am I in the midst of them."  So I hope you are not assuming I am a lazy Catholic and only ask others to pray for me.  Of course I pray directly to my beloved God myself.
 
Spare me the story of a nun who left her faith.  I have known them and read their pathetic books many times.  It is sad that they choose to make money this way.  But, Ali, we all need to realize that the Evil One is very much alive and well on planet earth....and he will try anyway he can to deceive, mislead, and steal the souls of anyone he possibly can.  This trash is a perfect example.
 
God's Peace to You Always,
Patty
 
 


Edited by PattyaMainer - 19 November 2008 at 4:32am
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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PattyaMainer View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

WEll we went from hair covering and religious aspects in it to the trinity... hmmm
 
never a dull moment
 
You know back in the 50s my mom met the pope at the Vatican. He wore this lacey thing on her head.. its actually a funny picture to see... lol
 
 
Who wore what on whose head, Hayfa? lol   What is it that you feel makes it funny?  I am confused on this one. 
 
You're right though......we can certainly jump around on these threads, can't we?  Kind of like we all have a certain amount of attention deficit disorder....and I am probably one of the worst offenders. LOL
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Dear Nur, my Church believes all other Christians have fallen away from the truth and that we are the only correct Church. So in a way, the other sects of Christianity can be non-Universal -

I think that is a bit too self-righteous right?

Angela, first and for most, whether we are Sunnis, Sufis, Salafis, Shias or Ismailis, the basic concept of the first pillar of Islam of LAILA HAILALLAH MUHAMMADURASULULLAH - That there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger - never change, never falters. That is the basic Aqidah or Faith. That is the gateway to Islam. Shariah or laws may change under extreme cases depending on the situation of a person. For example when one cannot stand due to illness, one can pray while sitting down. When one is on a long journey during fasting month, he or she can leave the fasting but have to repay after the fasting month. Allah�s law can fit anytime or anyplace on earth.  

My Church believes this was part of the reason that the other Churches fell from the true ways and why we have our Book of Mormon. It was preserved by the Hand of God and brought forth by our Prophet Joseph Smith.

I find it skeptical that all the prophets came from near or around the centre of the Earth that is in the Middle East, yet suddenly one emerged in another corner of the earth. Or that God could be very cruel (astaghfirullah - I seek forgiveness from Allah) leaving the original descendents of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad without a guide.

We refer to that for the final say on our laws because its considered more pure.

That can be debated on sometime.

Salam

 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Hi Nur,
 
People from the times of the Old Testament prayed to God, but they knew (it was revealed to them), that a Messiah would be born.  They were fully aware that He was coming in the future.
 
Peace to you,
Patty
 
Yes. I believe that the people of old times prayed to God. The God of the whole universe that created the first person Adam till the last person on earth and the whole of the universe.
 
Each and everyone of us were born to worship a God, some kind of God, even people from the middle of Amazon or Africa, they knew that there is a Supreme Being that created us, that has power of us, that control our lives.
 
I believe the reason we are born into this earth was to worship God. Spiritually, our relationship with God is similar.  I mean, the experience of His nearness, His spiritual connection with our souls, are similar. There is not much difference in the emotion or the feeling of His nearness. I know you love God, same like me, we love God. Our connection with Him is true, no one can deny that.
The only difference is that some worship The Creator directly, while others worship Him thru a creation of His.
 
Another question. Why is the Messiah sent for?
 
The Messiah's glory was told long before His birth in the Torah and the Zabur.  Here are some of those verses:

He will conquer the serpent who is Satan.
(Genesis 3:15)

He will be the means of blessing to all nations.
(Genesis 22:18)   (2000 BC)
He will be raised from the dead.
(Psalm 16:10)   (1000 BC)
He will sit at the right hand of God.
(Psalm 110:1)   (1000 BC)
He will reign as King forever.
(Psalm 89:35-37)   (1000 BC)

And in the NT this verse is spoken by the "Messiah Himself.
After he rose from the dead, Jesus said to his discibles:

"...all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me, Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And he said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Messiah to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day; And that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name among all nations...."
(Luke 24:44-47)

 
 
The Koran says that the Torah (Old Testament) was confirmed by Jesus and by the Injil (New Testament):

   "And we sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him; and we gave to him the Gospel (Injil) which contains guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition for the pious."
(Surah No. 5 Al Ma'Idah:46)

   
The Koran also exhorts to believe in the Biblical verses given long ago--
 
"O you who believe, believe in God and ...the book that was revealed from before."
(Surah No. 4 An-Nisa:136)
 
Simply put, the Messiah was sent as the sacrificial Lamb of God......the redeemer who died as the ultimate sacrifice to cleanse ALL men from their sins, if they repent and believe.   They MUST turn away from their sins to be worthy of Heaven and the beatific vision after their deaths. 
 
I hope this answers your question, Nur.  I am not a scholar and am very poor at explaining what I mean to say. 
 
May the God of all Bless us All,
Patty
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Dear Nur, my Church believes all other Christians have fallen away from the truth and that we are the only correct Church. So in a way, the other sects of Christianity can be non-Universal -

I think that is a bit too self-righteous right?

Angela, first and for most, whether we are Sunnis, Sufis, Salafis, Shias or Ismailis, the basic concept of the first pillar of Islam of LAILA HAILALLAH MUHAMMADURASULULLAH - That there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger - never change, never falters. That is the basic Aqidah or Faith. That is the gateway to Islam. Shariah or laws may change under extreme cases depending on the situation of a person. For example when one cannot stand due to illness, one can pray while sitting down. When one is on a long journey during fasting month, he or she can leave the fasting but have to repay after the fasting month. Allah�s law can fit anytime or anyplace on earth.  

My Church believes this was part of the reason that the other Churches fell from the true ways and why we have our Book of Mormon. It was preserved by the Hand of God and brought forth by our Prophet Joseph Smith.

I find it skeptical that all the prophets came from near or around the centre of the Earth that is in the Middle East, yet suddenly one emerged in another corner of the earth. Or that God could be very cruel (astaghfirullah - I seek forgiveness from Allah) leaving the original descendents of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad without a guide.

We refer to that for the final say on our laws because its considered more pure.

That can be debated on sometime.

Salam

 

 
I must say that I agree with you, Nur.  I do know many Mormans, and they are very modest and sincere people......I have never found any other more kind than Mormans.  However, I do not believe that Jesus' true word was suddenly discovered in the United States.  Not at all.  For one thing many physical symbols of Jesus Christ's ministry are still quite visible in the Middle East.  The Bible is not a lie which was written by some old feeble men on drugs!!!!  The monks and priests who labored intensively over the writings were very devoted to their task at  hand and did not take any of it lightly. To believe one church is the ONLY church who "has it right" is quite honestly, "wrong."  Jesus said there are many paths to Him, to God.  Here is a little blurb from an Orthodox priest who was speaking in Rome about people around the world going to Heaven:
 

Orthodox bishop says nothing can destroy God's desire to forgive

ROME (CNS) -- God loves every human being, and there is nothing anyone can do that would destroy God's merciful desire to forgive, said Russian Orthodox Bishop Hilarion of Vienna and Austria. Speaking April 4 at the World Apostolic Congress on Mercy in Rome, Bishop Hilarion explored the teaching on divine mercy contained in the writings of the seventh-century hermit, St. Isaac the Syrian. The saint, he said, taught that "divine loves lies at the foundation of the universe, it governs the world, and it will lead the world to that glorious outcome when the latter will be entirely 'consumed' by the godhead." Bishop Hilarion said St. Isaac was opposed to the teaching, spread during his lifetime, that held that the majority of people would be punished in hell and only a few would make it to heaven. The saint was "convinced that, quite the contrary, the majority of people will find themselves in the kingdom of heaven and that only a few sinners will go to Gehenna, and even then only for the period of time which is necessary for their repentance and remission of sins," the bishop said. "Every created being is precious in God's eyes," Bishop Hilarion said. "If we turn away from God, he does not turn away from us."

Here is an article which I believe wholeheartedly states my faith's position on thos of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish faiths.  I hope it will inspire you and give you hope.  It has lifted my spirits emmensely.  I am also offering the link for more information on the Catholic Church's opinion on the great love of God for all of us......ALL, not just one church. 

Coming Together
as Brothers and Sisters
in the Faith of Abraham

by Friar Jack Wintz, O.F.M.

Q U I C K S C A N

A Change of Attitude Toward Other Religions
A Truer Expression of Islam
Building a More Peaceful World

Is it possible to take a break from all the death and interreligious discord we experience in our world today, especially in Iraq, the Middle East and similar places of conflict? Yes, I believe it is possible�and much needed! Such a break recently took place at the Vatican on January 17, in the form of a "Concert for Reconciliation." The concert, which was a real sign of hope, brought together Christians, Muslims and Jews in an atmosphere of peace, harmony and mutual respect, with performers and spectators from the three faiths.

Gilbert Levine conducted the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra and a massive chorus with participants from Pittsburgh; London; Ankara, Turkey; and Krakow, Poland. The program started off with the world premiere of "Abraham," a motet commissioned for the occasion. Seated on either side of Pope John Paul II were a prominent rabbi and an imam, both of Rome. Also present from various foreign nations were other leaders and representatives of the three faiths.

At the end of the concert, John Paul II urged that all of us who trace our faith back to Abraham "must find within ourselves the courage for peace....Jews, Christians and Muslims," the pope added, "cannot accept that the earth be afflicted by hatred, [or] that humanity would remain involved in wars without end....Today one feels a pressing need for a sincere reconciliation among believers in one God. " The pope also said to those present: "The hope we express is that people will be purified of the hatred and evil that continually threaten peace and that they will learn to reach out to each other with hands that know no violence but are ready to offer aid and comfort to those in need."

http://www.americancatholic.org/e-News/FriarJack/fj012804.asp

 
May we all find peace through our religions,
Patty


Edited by PattyaMainer - 19 November 2008 at 10:56am
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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