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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2008 at 3:08am
Originally posted by layalee layalee wrote:

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

Layalee, i respect your beliefs and that is your choice but I cannot help but feel you are wrapping yourself up in cotton wool, I'm sure you feel some kind of aniexty, just look now at mothers' day you say you won't celebrate it anymore?? I can see you now on the day making a concious effort in not doing anything for your mum for fear of doing something wrong in the eye of Allah because it now has somekind of religious context to it.
I mean no offence and you can do whatever you like but this is what I am picking up from your posts.




No offence tooken at all Angel. And perhaps you right, perhaps I may be fillled with a sense of anxiety when mothers day come around, for I'm sure my mother will struggle to understand my beliefs. Perhaps I will wake up with a urge to want to buy her a nice gift that Sunday morning. Because yes I am human, with emotions.

But this is a personal Jihad inside of me that I must deal with and face. I also know if I stand strong and conquer those negative struggles in the the end I will come out better. Life is all about dealing with the personal struggle inside. It's how we deal with these personal struggles in a whole that determines our place in the hereafter.

Al-Imran 3:104 'And hold fast, all together, by the rope of Allah and be not divided; and remember the favour of Allah which He bestowed upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts in love, so that by His grace you became as brothers; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah explain to you His commandments that you may be guided'  

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2008 at 10:56pm

 

 It is not only this matter of not greeting the non-muslims but many other things that the present day Ulema have invented to mislead the Ummah. The Fatawa of the scholar may be perfect. But a wrong meaning is being derived. So whose fault is that? It is not the fault of that scholar. The Fatawa says, do not greet the Kuffar. Do not befriend the Kuffar. Do not imitate the kuffar.

 That is alright, very well said and should be done. But are the christians kaafirs?? No. Are the Jews Kaafir? No. Attending their invitation is imitating them?? No.

 So why not some new clear verse or Hadith be presented by the Knowledge on this forum in support of the idea that we should not greet the christians. A verse of the Quran has been presented that if any one greets/ presents you with some gift, you should return it with a better gift or equal thereof.  That is being restricted in meaning and application. That is not a good thing.

 Did the prophet ever say "The Muslims should not greet the christians. The muslims should not attend the functions of the christians"??/ I do not know any such thing.

 Because there is the word kaafir being used here again and again. I would ask the friends Seeks and The Knowledge to explain exactly who is a real kaafir. Thanks. And please give some examples too. Also tell if the present day Muslims represent Islam ?

 The muslims should be kind, open heart and loving all humanity.



Edited by minuteman
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 4:28am

As'Salamu Alaikum,

I was about to post  this morning at the end but , that spamming is n't allowed

Angel i have no problem discussing it here. I thought we may get  messed up  with other discussions. Anyways, what i know is Mother's day is a ritual. I found these reasons behind its celebrations.

Mother�s Day gains its history from many sources around the world. One claim to fame comes from the custom of mother goddess worship in ancient Greece. This stemmed from a festival held in mid-March dedicated to Cybele, the mother of the ancient gods, and Rhea, the wife of Cronus.
 
In the 19th century, Anna Maria Reeves Jarvis established Mother�s Day to celebrate mothers, social activism, and pacifism.
Another historical origin of Mother�s Day comes from the United Kingdom�s �Mothering Sunday� celebration, which takes place on the fourth Sunday in Lent.  It is also known as Mid-Lent Sunday, Rose Sunday, and Laetare Sunday. This was a day for children to pamper their mother with small gifts. The United Kingdom�s practice of Mothering Sunday also draws its origins from the Victorian practice of granting servants a day to return home and visit their mothers. So we have a Greek goddess and an English Lent angle to the story of Mother�s Day. 
These were the reasons behind it. We muslims shud not get associated with these days.

 Now, irrespective of why it is celebrated, most of us feel , whats wrong in wishing a mother on that day.

Even if celebrating Mother's day were a part of culture,  i would not encourage such cultures. India already got influenced for it getting celebrated. I believe there is also Father's day , Sister's day and Brother's day too. Very soon the other relations days like, sister-in-law's day and brothers-in-law Day, Grandfather's day -------.they get started. Only thing i wish to ask those who favour these types of days, Why do we need a day to express our love? Why do you wait for a day to make someone feel special ? Especially, this Mother's day hurts me very much. We want our mothers to wait eagerly for our calls?  Suppose if due to some reason her child does n't turn up, can we imagine how much she gets hurted?  Do you think all children wish there parents? Do you think all of them turn up that day to wish ?  Why do we play with her feelings?  Can we feel the pain of a mother who has lost her child. She may badly miss her child that day. And a woman who has no children, did we feel her pain? No one except God knows her feelings. Woman been emotional, get hurted quickly and severly. These days play with her emotions.

She may feel happy when all her children wish her and as expected she may even receive gifts. But i assure you that  she shall be happy when you surprise her by gifting on any other days, which she might not be expecting. That shall be her day. We are to give importance to our mothers in every aspect of  our life. That shall be her day. Keep her giving gifts regularly. Why to select a particular day?  Did our mother select a day to express her love for us.

MINUTEMAN and ISRAFIL

From Christians point of view son of god came on earth in human form to atone for the sins of mankind, they actully celebrate this event on christmas. Now, even if you greet them believing that you are greeting them on the birth day of a Prophet, it will be taken differently from their side. Also, as a muslim we must proclaim our correct belief in front of kuffar instead of hiding it just to please them.

 As per my knowledge Prophet Mohammed did not come across any event wherein he required to approve or disapprove greeting kuffar on their festival. So, scholars had derived ruling considering the nature of Islam. Religious festval is definitely part of religion and it indeed is expression of some of their beliefs. 

But Christmas is not just imitating kuffar but endorsing their beliefs indirectly

Imitation of kuffar is a subjective term. To adopt any sign of kuffar which is specifically known and understood as sign of kuffar is called imitation. For example, wearing a tie might have been a sign of kuffar earlier but now it can't be considered as imitation, because tie is not at all understood as sign of kuffar now. Kafir was already defined.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christmas.html

http://www.atheistalliance.org/library/AB-Solstice.php

A verse of the Quran has been presented that if any one greets/ presents you with some gift, you should return it with a better gift or equal thereof

But it does  n't give the meaning you present. No where is gift discussed. The form of greeting was already stated in hadith. Why do you feel the verse is wrongly interpreted?

Present day Muslims represent Islam?

I cannot judge a muslim. Never judge ISlam by today's muslim but still we as a muslim hold responsibilities of our actions.  Islam is viewed  through its practicers. We can't escape .

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 5:33am

Originally posted by seekshidayath seekshidayath wrote:

Only thing i wish to ask those who favour these types of days, Why do we need a day to express our love?

my answer, why not? and yes everyday should be to.

Quote Why do you wait for a day to make someone feel special ?

You are making assumptions, a sweeping statement as if children only wait for that day to make her feel special & loved.  

I myself don't wait.

Quote Especially, this Mother's day hurts me very much. We want our mothers to wait eagerly for our calls?  Suppose if due to some reason her child does n't turn up, can we imagine how much she gets hurted?  Do you think all children wish there parents? Do you think all of them turn up that day to wish ?  Why do we play with her feelings?  Can we feel the pain of a mother who has lost her child. She may badly miss her child that day. And a woman who has no children, did we feel her pain? No one except God knows her feelings. Woman been emotional, get hurted quickly and severly. These days play with her emotions.

Stop assumping things Seek.

Who said we are playing with our mothers' feeliing and making her hurt if we don't do this or that??

And please don't start with woman been emotional...and all that stuff...!!! Your so call questions can be applied to fathers too along with feeling hurt.

And for children cannot make it, if they live elsewhere I'm sure they will contact her somehow.

You have a negative view here

Its all not that bad! Lighten up and have some fun.

And you forget one thing, what about the mothers' ?? not once did you imply perhaps they like that day and want that day for themselves. Why not have a day?? and why not on a time that was already in place years before??

Stop making it out to be such a negative thing!

Quote But i assure you that  she shall be happy when you surprise her by gifting on any other days, which she might not be expecting. That shall be her day. We are to give importance to our mothers in every aspect of  our life. That shall be her day. Keep her giving gifts regularly.

and who said that children don't do this already ??  

yes I know there are "some" people who don't give out much care for whatever reason there are, I can't make assumptions on it.  

Quote Did our mother select a day to express her love for us.

You know what, evey mother and every family is different you do not know what they have organised!! perhaps they have picked a day, who knows, I don't do you?

There is no brother or sister day, none on any calanders i know.



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 8:44am

Seekshidayath:

From Christians point of view son of god came on earth in human form to atone for the sins of mankind, they actully celebrate this event on christmas. Now, even if you greet them believing that you are greeting them on the birth day of a Prophet, it will be taken differently from their side. Also, as a muslim we must proclaim our correct belief in front of kuffar instead of hiding it just to please them.

But Christmas is not just imitating kuffar but endorsing their beliefs indirectly

Imitation of kuffar is a subjective term. To adopt any sign of kuffar which is specifically known and understood as sign of kuffar is called imitation. For example, wearing a tie might have been a sign of kuffar earlier but now it can't be considered as imitation, because tie is not at all understood as sign of kuffar now. Kafir was already defined.

There is nothing more I can say beyond what I've already said. After being lectured on "following the footsteps of Satan: all because of helping out other human beings for the purpose of humanity I'm quite content with  being a demonic minion. Seekshidayath in another thread you mentioned that it was a mercy granted to apostates (prior to execution) 1 to 3 days to repent so your remarks above coming from you are not surprising.

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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 9:19am

Originally posted by seekshiayah seekshiayah wrote:

For example, wearing a tie might have been a sign of kuffar earlier but now it can't be considered as imitation, because tie is not at all understood as sign of kuffar now.

 

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 7:41pm

 

 Seeks, your post of 10 jan. was elaborate. But you missed to answer one of my questions.

 That is alright, very well said and should be done. But are the christians kaafirs?? No. Are the Jews Kaafir? No. Attending their invitation is imitating them?? No.

 I had already given my opinion about the JEWS AND the christians. I wanted your view also.  In the time of the prophet s.a.w.s. were the JEWS and the christians called kaafirs?? or people of the book?? Of course, some people of the book can be kaafir too. But not the whole lot. So would you consider the christians as kafir?

 You have tried to avoid the imitation and yet tried to describe it. I said that if i arrange a christmas tree at home and celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25th December then i am imitating the christians. Not otherwise. do you agree to that please?

 Tie is another good example of the narrow minded maulvi's mind. Dress is not all that important. I can use suit (coat and pant) with tie because I speak English. Then there are other rules of good behaviour such as covering the certain parts of the body. That is necessary to follow and abide by. Not the material or design of the clothing (except silk in case of men). Please try to elaborate on the mind of those maulvis who had been preaching quite a lot against the use of tie in the sub-continent. Why they did it and wasted their time /energy on such things?/ Could this matter of x-mas celebrations be another one of the same kind?

 There is long list of the misunderstanding of the real knowledge about Quran and Sunnah of those who are leading the prayers. In the past few centuries they (maulvis) were sleeping when the kings and princes were enjoying the ladies dances at their palaces. When all was lost, then suddenly, they got up and tried to take up the sword to correct the matter. But did nothing towards learning anything, any technology etc.

 You being a supporter of those people may please answer these things. Thanks. I am sorry to inform here that one Maulvi (ahle Hadith) argued with a friend of mine that earth was flat. That was the year 1998 A.D. He was the Imam of a big mosque. That is alright if he did not know the truth. But even after explaining all to him he  did not agree. It was lucky that he did not beat my friend on that issue of the world 9earth) being a globe. He was quite hot and angry.

 It appears that the maulvis are walking/ following on the footsteps of the christian. They will be thrown out of the active field like the western people have now ignored the religious leaders. It would be better that the religious leaders co-operate with others in order to remain alive and make progress for the Ummah.



Edited by minuteman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mariyah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2008 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 

 It is not only this matter of not greeting the non-muslims but many other things that the present day Ulema have invented to mislead the Ummah. The Fatawa of the scholar may be perfect. But a wrong meaning is being derived. So whose fault is that? It is not the fault of that scholar. The Fatawa says, do not greet the Kuffar. Do not befriend the Kuffar. Do not imitate the kuffar.

 That is alright, very well said and should be done. But are the christians kaafirs?? No. Are the Jews Kaafir? No. Attending their invitation is imitating them?? No.

 So why not some new clear verse or Hadith be presented by the Knowledge on this forum in support of the idea that we should not greet the christians. A verse of the Quran has been presented that if any one greets/ presents you with some gift, you should return it with a better gift or equal thereof.  That is being restricted in meaning and application. That is not a good thing.

 Did the prophet ever say "The Muslims should not greet the christians. The muslims should not attend the functions of the christians"??/ I do not know any such thing.

 Because there is the word kaafir being used here again and again. I would ask the friends Seeks and The Knowledge to explain exactly who is a real kaafir. Thanks. And please give some examples too. Also tell if the present day Muslims represent Islam ?

 The muslims should be kind, open heart and loving all humanity.

AA:

Brother minuteman, thank you. I feel  that some of the posters here ignore my post and do not have the courtesy to address me because I am a woman. That is the cultural thing I suppose. Funny how the president of the largest Muslim organization for the North American continent is a woman and a noted Scholar. Dr Ingrid Mattson is a pioneer, and a hijabi too!

 



Edited by Maryah
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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