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Topic ClosedWHAT IS KUFR?????

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layalee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 11:05pm

Truth_light:

Thank you for your reply. I pretty much agree with the definitions of what a kufr is based on your presentation of ayats, and other reliable sources.

I'm more so trying to grasp an understanding of WHO will will fall under this catorgory.

Truth_light you made the statement yourself that Islam is more then just a religion. I 100% agree...

quote from truth_light:

'By the way, Islam is not just a �religion� like how others believe it to be. Islam is a COMPLETE WAY OF LIFE, a way of life commanded by Allah through His Words that can be found in the Quran and His Messengers is the best model of what Allah wants us to follow. And those who surrender themselves completely to the Will of Allah is called Muslim.'

But Truth_Light, not everyone has to be labeled a Muslim to practice a Islamic lifestyle.

Truth_light, if you don't mind. I REALLY would like you to answer this question- or maybe two, for me ( or anyone that will like to answer it), and when you answer it support your answer  with a ayat that relates  to the question.

1)As long as a christian, Jew, hindu, amish, etc, etc does not commit shirk, they submit to Allah (s.w.t) 100% and do not regect any prophets due to disbelief,  is this individual a Kuffr?

2) If we can both agree that Islam is more then a religion, then is it not possible that a individual can live such a  lifestyle without being known or even considering themselves a Muslim?

3) If a individual does not take their Shahadah, but live a rightous lifestlye, then are they a Kufr?

Truth_light, I know you are not a scholar, by no means am I trying to put you 'on the spot' with these questions. If you choose not to answer them thats ok. I sincerely just want to know your point of view of this subject. This is a topic you started so I will like you to share with me the knowledge you might  have  that I am trying to gain as well.

 



Edited by layalee
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Truth_light24 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 6:42am
Sis layalee, mr minuteman has asked similar question and I have answered it supported with ayah from the Quran. You believe or not, thats your right.

Sallam

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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layalee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 11:35am

My questions are similar to Minuteman but not the same. If anyone else has the knowledge to answer my questions then, I will really appreciate it. The ayats that you have stated in the previous postings do not relate to my questions.

Salaam,

Layalee.

Because of the large amount of 'hits' on this topic, If I find the answers to my questions from other sources, forums, etc. I will post them to share with my brothers and sisters.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:57pm

Ron you said - "If God really cared about my belief in Him personally, He could easily convince me.  (He is supposed to be omnipotent, isn't He?)  IMHO the fact that He doesn't is sufficient answer to your question."

Your life is not at it's end.  You can't say that until your life is over, but then you might not feel like saying much. LOL! 

No seriously,  GOD has a plan for everyone and everyone is of equal value to Him. 

GOD's timing is different then ours, the time has not come for Him to reveal Himself to you.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:08pm

Truth_light24
Very interesting.  I have never heard this mentoned before- very similar to the Catholic venial and mortal sins and pergutory.

Is a loved one able to do anything for the person in temporary hellfire- good deeds, prayers, etc. to help them get out sooner? 

In the Catholic faith they do pray for those in purgatory.

 

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by layalee layalee wrote:

Truth_light:

Thank you for your reply. I pretty much agree with the definitions of what a kufr is based on your presentation of ayats, and other reliable sources.

I'm more so trying to grasp an understanding of WHO will will fall under this catorgory.

Truth_light you made the statement yourself that Islam is more then just a religion. I 100% agree...

quote from truth_light:

'By the way, Islam is not just a �religion� like how others believe it to be. Islam is a COMPLETE WAY OF LIFE, a way of life commanded by Allah through His Words that can be found in the Quran and His Messengers is the best model of what Allah wants us to follow. And those who surrender themselves completely to the Will of Allah is called Muslim.'

But Truth_Light, not everyone has to be labeled a Muslim to practice a Islamic lifestyle.

Truth_light, if you don't mind. I REALLY would like you to answer this question- or maybe two, for me ( or anyone that will like to answer it), and when you answer it support your answer  with a ayat that relates  to the question.

1)As long as a christian, Jew, hindu, amish, etc, etc does not commit shirk, they submit to Allah (s.w.t) 100% and do not regect any prophets due to disbelief,  is this individual a Kuffr?

2) If we can both agree that Islam is more then a religion, then is it not possible that a individual can live such a  lifestyle without being known or even considering themselves a Muslim?

3) If a individual does not take their Shahadah, but live a rightous lifestlye, then are they a Kufr?

Truth_light, I know you are not a scholar, by no means am I trying to put you 'on the spot' with these questions. If you choose not to answer them thats ok. I sincerely just want to know your point of view of this subject. This is a topic you started so I will like you to share with me the knowledge you might  have  that I am trying to gain as well.

 

Assalamu Alaikum Sister:

Only Allah(SWT) knows the answer to these questions. Men cannot judge what is in the hearts of other men, nor can we know what Allah(SWT) will forgive and will not forgive, other than shirk, which has been made clear to us.

We are told as Muslims that we should not call another khaffir:

It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

 

�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Truth_light24 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 5:01pm

I posted this topic�What is Kufr� not on the purpose of calling people names but to state the attributes of those who are committing it. TO COMMIT SHIRK IS UNFORGIVABLE and to COMMIT KUFR IS SOMETHING WE SHOULDN'T TAKE LIGHTLY because the act of SHIRK emanate from KUFR.


Why did I reverted into Islam in the first place if being a Christian can make me enter Jannah too? What is the difference between a muslim and a non-muslim? If I be a non-muslim, I can still do sins which Christianity believe Jesus has paid for his own flesh and blood, so why I accepted Islam, that forbids me to wear sexy attire, drink liquor, etc etc. and instead am wearing a black sack-like (as what most non-Muslim attributed to loose dresses Muslim women wore) garment, covering hair and all that ? WHY?

The reason I reverted to Islam is the context of PURE MONOTHEISM, that Allah is the one True God, that He doesn�t have a family and He is not human being. I reverted to Islam because am afraid I wont be entering Jannah, because I know deep in my heart, that to do injustice to the Real True God (Act of SHIRK) will invite His wrath and He will never forgive me. Life in this world is just but temporary one and life in the Hereafter is eternal, and what am aiming is the eternal one, not this life.

My grandfather and grandmother died as Christians and it really saddened me because I love them so much and I failed to take them with me to my new true path but what can I do? Only Allah can help them and no one else. This is the reason am posting this topic, to caution people so that they can work harder to reach out to their families and help them enter Jannah with Quran as my basis and not be on the state of continuous denial and live in a state of �make-believe�.



Edited by Truth_light24
And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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Truth_light24 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 5:38pm

MR. MINUTEMAN:

The examples you have given T_L are mostly about the polytheists (Mushrikeen). It is not our duty to kill them or to beat them to death if they do not follow Islam. They will be punished by Allah in hell.

Mr. Minuteman, what in the world would you think am talking about?? Am talking about Mushrikeen, people who are setting partners with Allah, people who are committing SHIRK, people who are not MUSLIM  and if you re-read what I have posted I never say that �Its our duty to kill or beat them to death if they do not follow Islam�..dont put words into my mouth Mr. Minuteman. Allah will deal with all of us in the Hereafter, He will judge us according to our intent.

I posted �What is Kufr� for those who doesn�t know its meaning and the danger committing it, so that they will avoid committing it. I am also stating here, with basis from the Quran, that no matter how many good deeds that you have done if you do SHIRK, it will not be accepted of you. We (Muslims) do good deeds on one purpose --> TO PLEASE ALLAH AND GAIN HIS MERCY FOR ONLY HIS MERCY CAN AVAIL US OF JANNAH. Let us take heed that if we worship Him in a wrong way, like putting partners to Him, then all our good deeds are in vain as what He has said in the Quran:

�It is not for the Mushrik�n (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of All�h), to maintain the Mosques of Allah (i.e. to pray and worship Allah therein, to look after their cleanliness and their building, etc.), while they witness against their ownselves of disbelief. The works of such are in vain and in Fire shall they abide. Quran 9:17

The Muslims� duty towards those who commit sin is to advise them and call them to repent, and remind them of the danger of sin and the evil consequences thereof. 

The obedient and the disobedient are not equal before Allaah, or before His believing slaves, as Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�Shall We treat those who believe (in the Oneness of Allaah �� Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds as Mufsidoon (those who associate partners in worship with Allaah and commit crimes) on earth? Or shall We treat the Muttaqoon (the pious) as the Fujjaar (criminals, disbelievers, the wicked)?�[Saad 38:28]


MR. MINUTEMAN:

Every one who does not believe in Islam is not a Kaafir. Only the one who fights or opposes is a kaafir. It is wrong to translate the word Kaafir as a mere disbeliever. It is proper to translate the word Kaafir as the disbelieving enemy, or enemy disbeliever.

If you have your own definition, then that is your right and you are accountable to your own doings. Kufr doesn�t mean a slur, it means �infidel�, people that conceal the truth and keep on rejecting (disbelieving) the true guidance. Ask Muslim scholars and they will answer you the same.

Islam is for peace, no doubt on that. Jihad has many meanings and you just can�t kill every non-Muslim passing you by without reasons stated in the Quran. Jihad can be attributed as self-defense or self control and not slaughtering innocent human beings.



Edited by Truth_light24
And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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