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QUESTIONS ABOUT ISLAM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Piccasso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2006 at 4:16pm

May I ask one more question not for the same reason maybe?

Are there sins that cannot be forgiven if the person repents for their sin?

Thank you for your assistance for the first question. It was a help.

 

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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2006 at 7:33pm
My dear brother Picasso, for Muslims, this life is a test and repentencei n this life is the door of success for the next. So as long as one continue to repent sincerely and honestly, I don't think there is any such sin that can't be forgiven, but that is only possible through the mercy of God and not without it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Piccasso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2006 at 2:31am
Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2006 at 3:41am
My personal view - not Islamic or Christian dogma:

I think this "life is a test or a trial" is misunderstood sometimes. It is not
a test like a school test, or a trial like a courtroom but rather more like a
test flight of a new airplane, or of a new software program.

Life is the alpha/beta version. We continually try and fail, but gradually
the bugs get worked out and we are in a better position to enjoy eternal
life with God in version 1.0. We are here to train for what comes next.

The Qu'ran explains in a straightforward fashion that we are to put on
earth learn to get along with each other. This is certainly present in the
teachings of Jesus, but not put forward as directly.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2006 at 11:29am

I was discussing about Islam with a friend of mine. This person told me that Islam teaches good conduct. She also said that Islam encouraged the liberation of slaves. Later she lent her Quran tafsir to me to read.

One particular verse I came through mentions something different than what she told me about Islam. I feel like verse 4:24 actually encourages adultery with slaves!

I'm sure there must be a reason Allah has revealed this verse. Can any expert Muslim explain this verse to me: How is marrying already married women (whom are one's slaves) considered good conduct?

When I showed this particular verse to my friend for explanation, she got angry at me & took away the tafsir. I just don't get it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2006 at 7:01pm

Hi Trident, I don't know how and why your friend behaved as you have mentioned, but I don't think this verse 4:24 says anything about adultary. This verse along with some preceeding and the one immediately after this, are injunctions for Muslims who all can be allowed to marry with. These set of particular verses simply explain who all women are "not allowed" for Muslims to be married with (except the slaves) and who all are not allowed. In case of marrying slaves, verse 4:25 provides a direct answer. Here is the translation of the verse from three different translators. I hope this may clear the ambiguity, if any.

004.024
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. 

004.025
YUSUFALI: If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another; so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness, they being honest, not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they are honourably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2006 at 2:50am
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Hi Trident, I don't know how and why your friend behaved as you have mentioned, but I don't think this verse 4:24 says anything about adultary. This verse along with some preceeding and the one immediately after this, are injunctions for Muslims who all can be allowed to marry with. These set of particular verses simply explain who all women are "not allowed" for Muslims to be married with (except the slaves) and who all are not allowed. In case of marrying slaves, verse 4:25 provides a direct answer. Here is the translation of the verse from three different translators. I hope this may clear the ambiguity, if any.

004.024
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.

Thanks for the prompt reply. What I understand of adultery is sexual relationship with someone who is not our spouse, i.e. husband or wife. But all the translations you've provided says married women cannot be married EXCEPT our RIGHT HAND POSSESSION. How do married women become our RIGHT HAND POSSESSIONS?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2006 at 7:03am

Originally posted by Trident Trident wrote:

How do married women become our RIGHT HAND POSSESSIONS?
Not any more, but at the time of Prophet, it used to be through battles he fought against the oppressors.

 Now to make this verse 4:24 understand a little better, kindly note that here a general rule is being prescribed where all "married women" (those who have their husbands living) are not allowed to be married with. That is to say, a woman can't have more than one husbands at a time, whatever the conditions may be; except those women who are among the category of "RIGHT HAND POSSESSIONS". The women in this category i.e. ""RIGHT HAND POSSESSIONS" might still have their non-Muslim husbands alive, when captured after the battle. So, the prohibition of not marrying an already married women doesn't apply to the women in this category.

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