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martha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2009 at 7:29am

[QUOTE=Nur_Ilahi]Waalaikum Salam Sis Hidayah.

I don't say that the life of a person completely depends on efforts of man, or completely is controlled  by fate. What you called as administered fate, i call it striving for the cause to reach natural fate. -Your striving is an act that you put an effort to administer your fate. For example there is apples hanging on the tree courtesy of the natural fate that Allah had given, If the farmer did not put an effort to water the plant, put in fertilizers, would the apple tree grow with abundance for the farmer to sell? If you do not put an effort to get a ladder to climb and get the apple, would the apples drop onto your lap just with your dua?

I call this faith, not administered fate. Is there a difference? Depending how we exercise faith then that decides our fate

However there are some areas of our fate that do change by our duas made. - Definitely, but with sincerity and after doing our part . For example, we ask Allah to give us long life, but at the same time, we eat all kinds of food that are dangerous to our health. Will our dua be makbul (accepted by Allah)?
 
This again is faith, surely. And obedience to Allah. HOw is that fate?

Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail. - Yes, but first we have to exert the Natural Fate (Attributes of the Ruh that Allah had given) that is - Qudrah (power) Iradhah (will) Ilm (knowledge) Hayah (life - during our lifetime) Sama� (the power of hearing) Basar (the power of seeing). How we apply these attributes in our daily life is administered Fate.
Faith? And , as you say,using those wonderful attributes of a human body Allah has given us. If we don't use them correctly then we insult Allah
Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities.
Not necessarily- they can be.
 
 - Yes.   .(Not necessarily) Because we are doing something that is natural to us, that is we are born in the state of Fitrah - Pure - Innocent, Clean Good. We are returning to our Natural Fate.

Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities.
- True. No, no, no! Not necessarily!!!  -  they can do
 
Let us define sin in tasawwuf. What is sin? Sin is a feeling of turbulence - unrest, instability, tumult, chaos because we are going away from Fitrah. Doing something that is against the Rules of Allah.
Oh dear....people sin and have a great time and IGNORE  these feelings you describe.....HOWEVER I believe ONE day the sins will disturb them. Shaytan makes the sinners feel they are doing ok at sinning, so it will be pleasurable for a time.
.
.For example, when I was unemployed a few years back, I would never get a job just by waiting for someone to call me and give the job to me. I have to exert some kind of effort in order for me to get a job. Open up newspapers for job vacancies, or looking up the internet or calling your friends that you are in need of a job. Alhamdulillah, I got a job recommended to me by a friend of mine. If I were to just wait at home, only doing dua after solah, without making any effort, I am being unfair if I blame God that I was not granted my wish.
This is called exercising faithConfused  Really I am confused. Help me out here.
I give my 100% of efforts {these efforts also include my prayers {duas} and strive,
- This is Administered Fate.

finally i get what am destined. I accept any decision of Allah swt that gives me full satisfaction.
- And this is Natural Fate.
This is the reward for exercising your faith. CryCry  Allah knows our destiny(fate) long before we do, but Allah
 still needs to test us. I give you an example. For those who are parents. We see our children grow and develop. You give them rules to follow. SOmetimes they obey, sometimes they don't. But the majority of parents will STILL allow the child to err...as a growing lesson. Lets face it...I am sure we know our kids well enough to know how they will react to a certain situation. Bingo! Allah is the same.
Am I making sense here? Or am I way off line somewhereConfused
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2009 at 8:23am
Hello Martha Smile,

Glad to see you active now-a-days at IC. I see you reading and responding to Islamic articles. So i conclude that you are studying Islam !

Fate is bit complicated issue. Even in Islam its said, we shud n't go deep in its discussion.  If you have understood the above post, its enough. What do you say sister Nur, hope you advice her the same. {insha Allah, when you study Islam more, i mean its other aspects, it shall give you more understanding.



Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2009 at 10:36pm
Dear Martha,

I will try my best to elaborate on this subject Fate.

You wrote - I call this faith, not administered fate. Is there a difference? Depending how we exercise faith then that decides our fate

Waiting for the apple to fall onto your lap is faith. You know it will drop sometime. Yes indeed it will fall onto your lap, but most probably, you have to wait for hours and hours for your �faith� to materialize. We are given the will to determine our fate, why not use it by employing some kinds of mean for this faith to manifest. In this case, get a ladder and climb up to taste the sweetness of the apple.

Apply this to our everyday life. We believe in Allah, we believe in Islam. Is it sufficient? Allah had given us the will, the power to increase our knowledge by seeking it and after acquiring these knowledge, it is not enough, we have to practice it. In other words, knowledge and action or in Islam ilm and aml must go hand in hand.

This again is faith, surely. And obedience to Allah. HOw is that fate?

When you supplicate to Allah for long life, that is faith. Because you know that He is As-Sami� - All Hearing. When you follow Allah�s commands for example fasting is good physically and spiritually, you are obedient to Allah. When you follow these commands with faith, you are setting your fate in a positive manner.

Faith? And , as you say,using those wonderful attributes of a human body Allah has given us. If we don't use them correctly then we insult Allah

Qudrah, Iradhah, Ilm, hayah, Sama�, Basar, Qalam - these are attributes of The Ruh or spirits/souls not the human body. Applying this wisely in our everyday life, will increase our Faith as well as our Fate. Use it wrongly we are only doing harm to no one but ourselves. We are only insulting our ourselves but not Allah.

Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities. Not necessarily- they can be.  
 

These are meant spiritually, not necessary physically. The feeling of peace and calm are felt not by any of our physical parts, but felt by our heart/souls.

Oh dear....people sin and have a great time and IGNORE  these feelings you describe.....HOWEVER I believe ONE day the sins will disturb them. Shaytan makes the sinners feel they are doing ok at sinning, so it will be pleasurable for a time.

Martha, we all were born in the state of Fitrah - Pure. It is how we were brought up. If we were brought up the evil way, we are suppressing the Fitrah that is in us. The Evil is not compatible with the Fitrah, The Fitrah will stay dormant. They indeed IGNORE the tuggings of the conscience, because they do not worship The Creator instead they worship Shaythan. But there is a possibility that The Dormant Fitrah may surface one day. That is why you see lots of people embracing Islam willingly because the Fitrah in them starts to surface and they cannot lie to themselves anymore.

This is called exercising faith  Really I am confused. Help me out here.


No this is exercising Fate. Administered Fate is in our own hands.  Faith means you know Allah is out there giving each and everyone an opportunity regardless of race or religion. It is how we make use of these opportunities that is called Fate.
 
This is the reward for exercising your faith.   Allah knows our destiny(fate) long before we do, but Allah  still needs to test us. I give you an example. For those who are parents. We see our children grow and develop. You give them rules to follow. SOmetimes they obey, sometimes they don't. But the majority of parents will STILL allow the child to err...as a growing lesson. Lets face it...I am sure we know our kids well enough to know how they will react to a certain situation. Bingo! Allah is the same.
Am I making sense here? Or am I way off line somewhere


The Love of Allah is similar to the love of a mother. But of course not as great as Allah�s Love. We as parents, had given our best ,physically, spiritually, mentally to our children to follow. Yet they err. As a mother myself, everyday after solah, I will pray to Allah to forgive my children for any error that they made, because we are human beings after all. Because I love my children very much, I do not want anything to befall them. I forgive them for whatever sins that they had done towards me, and I want Allah too to forgive them. This is Faith. Because we know that Allah is Ar-Rahman - Most Gracious, Ar-Raheem, Most Merciful, Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving, At-Tawwab - Accepter of Repentance.

This kind of faith may change our fate.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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