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Angela
Senior Member
Joined: 11 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2555
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 2:28pm |
(Warning, the following is not intended to insult Islam)
Meng, it is really appropriate or responsible to send Missionaries into countries where the following could happen.
A.) They are killed.
B.) The converts are killed.
C.) They would be causing conflict in families, tribes and villages.
The sad fact is many of the more tribal or uneducated Muslims believe firmly (although falsely) that the punishment for apostacy is death.
By teaching these people the Gospel and possibly having them accept it, you are endangering their lives and potentially their families lives.
God is merciful and loving. He is not going to send people to hell just because they never heard the word of Christ. But those who bring harm to others through their actions will have to face God on judgement day for those actions.
Saudi Arabia is home to the two holiest sites in Islam and is also the seat of a very very strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia. If they do not wish to have their society disrupted by Missionaries then they have that right. They were not founded on freedom of religion and we cannot force our western values on their society.
Edited by Angela
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Meng
Guest Group
Joined: 11 April 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 37
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 2:47pm |
Angela, are you saying that Christians shouldn't be allowed to bring their own Bibles into an Islamic country? The point of this post was this: should Christians be allowed the same freedom in Islamic countries that Muslims enjoy in this country.
Actually, I'd rather hear from Muslims on this matter. They really need to think it through. I'm aware of the dangers of proselytizing in Muslim countries - that's the whole point of this thread.
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I believe in Jesus
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Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:21pm |
Meng wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but must disagree. In order to practice our faith, Christians need a Bible. The Bible, like the Quran, is an intricate part of our faith system. We read from the Bible and meditate on its words. Therefore, when Saudi customs confiscates Bibles and trashes them (and they do throw them away - how disrespectful is that?), they are depriving Christians of an important feature of their faith.
I don't agree that bringing a Bible into the "kingdom" is equal to building a mosque in the Vatican. However, I wouldn't be against Muslims building a mosque there if they so choose.
There is no compulsion in religion, right? Why trash Bibles? Why treat Christians as inferiors in Mohammed's own country. After all, Mohammed, himself, was married to a Christian, was he not?
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I agree, however I challenge our co-religionist in the understanding of Abraham. The movtivation of Christian missionaries in my personal opinion is not intellectual sharing but from being zealots. As I have said before the Christian mindset is to "save" the people from eternal damnation. I have challenged many Christians according to their idea of God's mercy and all have failed. Like most religions one group believes the others going to hell. The only Christian sect that believes in the universality of God's message are Catholics who believe that all humans regardless of religious sect has a chance to reach God's love.
Now I'm sure you do not belong to the Catholic church but again this is why many Muslim countries do not allow missionaries. However I do not agree in not educating ourselves of the Bible as I believe it is considered literature. I believe that any person of any religion has the right to free speech in America, or any country that promotes free speech however it is not immoral that a country has a law prohibiting that right from others of different faiths. I have had my rights impede on by Christians telling me constantly and all the time I'm going to hell, so yes I do support a country not allowing Christian proseltyze to occur.
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Katherine
Guest Group
Joined: 03 April 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:32pm |
Meng wrote:
When our soldiers were sent over there in the Gulf War
they were warned not to take a Bible. Isn't that something?
You'd think that our government would have defended their soldiers'
right to have their own Scriptures.
They were also warned against "witnessing" to Muslims. How
ironic that a Muslim approached my daughter and spoke about the Gospel!
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I remember a story of a couple in my area who went to Saudi Arabia
on a trip, not to preach the gospel but for another reason. Their
Bibles were taken from them before they deplaned.
I also know of a man in Saudi Arabia who is a secret Christian. He cannot worship in the faith of his choice.
I do not understand this. What if this was the case in other
countries such as the USA? What would Muslims have to say about
that? I would think that they would be up in arms. No pun
intended.
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ak_m_f
Senior Member
Joined: 15 October 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3272
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 3:32pm |
Meng wrote:
When our soldiers were sent over there in the Gulf War they were warned not to take a Bible.� Isn't that something? |
This is because US government is smart. They didn't wanted to give the notion of "War on Islam, US soldiers found carrying cross" or something like that.
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Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 4:13pm |
It's called "cultural sensitivity AK" not some other hidden agenda...
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Mishmish
Senior Member
Joined: 01 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1694
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:00pm |
Assalamu Alaikum:
The United States was founded on the principle of religious freedom. Saudi Arabia was not. They are a sovereign government and can choose what they will and will not allow in their country. Speculating as to whether this is correct behavior or not makes no difference to them and will change nothing.
Now, what I find really interesting is that in the United States, a country founded on religious freedom, so many religious groups are so anti-Islam. So openly anti-Islam. As a concerned person, that would bother me more than what some other country is or isn't doing.
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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semar
Senior Member
Male
Islam
Joined: 11 March 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1830
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Posted: 11 April 2006 at 5:51pm |
Peace,
I think Mismish right, we can not compare Saudi and us. In that sense perhaps Saudi is comparable with Vatican.
However we also have to note that Vatican position in catholic community totally different with Saudi position in Muslim community. Vatican has hierarchy position. So Vatican's position on a certain issue will represent and followed by Catholics world wide. But not Saudi. Even many Muslims are not happy with Saudi's policy on many issues, however it's their right we can not and should not complaint.
So it's not appropriate to generalize that Saudi position is the Muslim position. Many muslim countries has different apporoaches compare with Saudi. Such as in Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan and other Muslim countries there are ten of thousands churches, Catholic schools, Christian schools, Catholic/Christian hospitals etc. The percentage of the institutions way more than the percentage of the Christian/Catholic populations.
However we understand that Saudi issue is the perfect ammunition for our brother and sister missionaries.
Edited by semar
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Salam/Peace,
Semar
"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)
"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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