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Corrupted Doctrine
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2006 at 12:25pm

What the Quran says:


2:113 The Jews say: "The christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

2:135 They say: "Become Jews or christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

9:30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Points: 2474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2006 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

Who judged the Holy Bible 98.5% accurate?


The part that matters is 100% accurate.  Rumi is 100% accurate too but you don't hear Christians arguing about the historical lineage of the blind men, the type of elephant involved or if the entire story was borrowed from an earlier folktale involving three blind mice .
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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But no one believes Rumi to be God.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Points: 2474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:42pm
But I think they were close friends!
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Israfil View Drop Down
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The 98.5% accuracy I believe she is discussing is historical aspect......If it was the religious/spiritual she would be more inclined to say 100% rather 98.5%  Also Patty the question my apology was aimed at towards my Muslim brethren rather than our co-religionist...
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Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

Who judged the Holy Bible 98.5% accurate?


Textual experts in Koine Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and Aramaic, etc., and they aren't all Christians.  Some have tried to prove the New Testament wrong, but after studying, many became Christians and one of them said that the texts could stand up in a court of law.

Everything is scrutinized and it is out in the open.  In the past some have questioned some historical facts and archeology has proved the Bible correct.

Every Christian should be satisfied in the authenticity of the Holy Bible.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

What the Quran says:


2:113 The Jews say: "The christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.


This verse is meaningless unless the Qur'an says what they disagreed upon, but the Qur'an is not talking about a "corrupted" or "forged" text.  It is talking about interpretation.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:


2:135 They say: "Become Jews or christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."


I have no idea who Allah is referring to here; it certainly isn't the Jews and it certainly isn't the Christians.  The Jews and the Christians have not joined other gods to God.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:


9:30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!


The Jews claim that they never called Uzair a son of God.  Even if some small sect did, the Qur'an has blamed them all.  Why wasn't Allah specific?

As I have said so many times, calling Jesus the son of God is not in itself a claim to divinity.  The "son of God" is another title for the Messiah.  Even the Qur'an calls Jesus the Messiah.

Besides that the God of the Jews and the Christians claims that He Himself has sons, not biological sons, but sons in the figurative sense.  I believe that Surah 9:30 is speaking of a literal son and if it is then, well you can draw your own conclusions.

Annie




Edited by AnnieTwo
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2006 at 5:48pm

These points have been discussed here before.

As said before, bring forth ALL of the gospels, not just those handpicked by the Nicean Council, and let people decide which are true and which are not.

Obviously this cannot be done, because they contradict. So, somewhere, something was changed. Even theologians who study the ancient texts agree that changes have been made. One word can change the meaning of a whole chapter.

And whether or not you believe that the Quran was speaking explicitly of the interpretation of the gospels, that should be enough. No where in the Old Testament or the New Testament does it state Jesus is God, or that there is a trinity. These concepts were added later.

Jesus never said he was God. If this is not a corruption of what Jesus said, then it is at the least a fabrication.

You ask why wasn't Allah specific when saying the Jews called Uzair a son of God, well, I ask why didn't God say that he is a trinity. Why didn't Jesus say that he was God? In the Quran, God says in no uncertain terms, there is only one God. Jesus was not my son, literally or figuratively, nor was he a God or the God. Nor is there a trinity. This is stated very clearly. I believe the Bible also states very clearly that there is only One God. That you should not make anything or anyone equal to God. But, it does not state clearly anywhere that Jesus is God, or that God is a trinity. Why hasn't God made this clear?



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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