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Women-Led Friday Prayer

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Shams Zaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shams Zaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2005 at 1:58pm

Dear Brother Rami has indeed answered the questions in most comprehensive and logical manner. These should suffice for those who believe that Islam was completed the day Prophet Muhammad delivered his last sermon. Regarding the authenticity of Hadith of Um-a-Maqtoom is concerned, here in Pakistan it is considered as authentic. All school of thoughts Sunni, Hanfi etc agree that this permission was granted to Um-e-Warqa as a one time measure to teach the ladies how to pray in congerration. But no where she was told to lead men or to become an Imama of ladied.

Prof Hamid-ullah khan who lived in Paris for most of his life, misinterperated the Hadith by assuming that the Sahabi who used to give Adan (call) for prayers used to be in the congergation behind Um-a-Warqa. This assumption was rejected by all other school of thoughts. However Shia scholars don't accept this Hadith.

As a man can't become wife or a women can't become father similarly women can't lead men in prayers. The role of man and women in a society has been clearly defined in Islam. This doesn't mean that women is inferior but her role does not conform to this. Once a women lead the prayers, a weak man will concentrate more on women rather than on Allah which is un-desirable.

Sura Baqra (2) verse 4-13 says, " 

4.  And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
5.  These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.
6.  Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe. 8.  And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
9.  They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.

10. There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they
11. And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
12. Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
13. And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know."

See for ourselves where we stand and is it not aFitna which has been raised after 1400 years.

Shams Zaman  Pakistan

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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2005 at 7:45am
Originally posted by Shams Zaman Shams Zaman wrote:

Dear Brother Rami has indeed answered the questions in most comprehensive and logical manner. These should suffice for those who believe that Islam was completed the day Prophet Muhammad delivered his last sermon. Regarding the authenticity of Hadith of Um-a-Maqtoom is concerned, here in Pakistan it is considered as authentic. All school of thoughts Sunni, Hanfi etc agree that this permission was granted to Um-e-Warqa as a one time measure to teach the ladies how to pray in congerration. But no where she was told to lead men or to become an Imama of ladied.

Since when these school of thoughts have been nationalized? I mean, these schools have no geographical boundaries. That is to say, why would you consider the hadith as authentic only through Pakistani (school of thoughts) and yet you claim all school of thoughts? Bro Rami from sunni school of thought has clearly asserted through a sunni scholar that the hadith is not authentic and yet your Pakistani schools consider it to be authentic. How? So in order to prove your point you need to present the case from your Pakistani school of thought's perspective rather than merely agreeing to what Bro Rami has presented.

Originally posted by Shams Zaman Shams Zaman wrote:

Prof Hamid-ullah khan who lived in Paris for most of his life, misinterperated the Hadith by assuming that the Sahabi who used to give Adan (call) for prayers used to be in the congergation behind Um-a-Warqa. This assumption was rejected by all other school of thoughts. However Shia scholars don't accept this Hadith.

On what basis you consider this view to be rejected or call it 'misinterprerated'? Without presenting your case with logical arguments (as has been done by bro rami), there is little that you can add to the solution of the issue. As I asked a very valid question in my arguments about the need for establishing the mosques in people's home, this would lead to the solution of the riddle. I have yet to see any reasonable response from any side.

Originally posted by Shams Zaman Shams Zaman wrote:

As a man can't become wife or a women can't become father similarly women can't lead men in prayers. The role of man and women in a society has been clearly defined in Islam. This doesn't mean that women is inferior but her role does not conform to this....

Even though your analogy seems to be strange in this case, however, you can extrapolate the same in a situation when a person (a male or a female) has to deal with his/her childern single handedly in the absence of his/her partner. Then in that situation, he/she is acting as a dual role for his/her children. Hence your analogy fails in this situation. By this, I am not saying that I am in favour of women leading the prayer, but simply trying to set the record straight with logical arguments.

Originally posted by Shams Zaman Shams Zaman wrote:

 Once a women lead the prayers, a weak man will concentrate more on women rather than on Allah which is un-desirable. .......

Your fears are well respected but have no value in the arena of shariah. Therefore, if (I repeat, if) a sound and logical case with sound 'asnad' (evidence) is presented to show that women can lead prayers of both men and women, then we should accept that view rather then remain bounded to our fears. However, as I found it uptill now, there is no such evidence that could be considered reasonably sound to support this issue. Rest Allah knows the best. 

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farithrezza View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farithrezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 12:02am
[edited]


Edited by farithrezza - 29 April 2009 at 8:05pm
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2005 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by farithrezza farithrezza wrote:

Just wanna attach something that shows women are equal to men.

-------------------------------------------------

Check this out, very interesting findings of Dr. Tariq
Al Swaidan might grasp your attention:

Dr.Tarig Al Swaidan discovered some verses in
the Holy Qur'an that mention one thing is equal to
another, i.e. men are equal to women.

Dear Sis,

Kindly provide the complete reference to your source. Is it from a published paper or what? Was that paper peer reviewed by any Islamic institution etc. Before any such thing is established it is really hard to even look at these numbers without validating them. I have seen many such mathematical equivalancies (you may find many authors on internet claiming such number equivalancies), but I never tend to put my faith into them. Be  careful and take extreme caution in spreading such things without authentication. Rest Allah knows the best.

 

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rami View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2005 at 5:41pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Quote Just wanna attach something that shows women are equal to men.


Posting somthing like this in this discussion implies that this is in some way evidence for women leading men in prayer, This is not evidence for anything related to the discussion and no one in this discussion has argued that women are not equal to men.

if the above was not your intention in posting it, which is more likely i think, then please stay within the topic of the post, the infomation has no relavence what so ever to the discussion.

Alhamdulillah women are equal to men.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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farithrezza View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farithrezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2005 at 2:22am
[edited]

Edited by farithrezza - 29 April 2009 at 8:09pm
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2005 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by farithrezza farithrezza wrote:

Assalamualaikum.

I'm sorry for what I did, which I tought would be only a good reading pleasure for everyone, but I guess it wouldn't be appropriate to post it in here. Sorry again, I wasn't meant to post something out-of-topic or maybe stuff which is not proven by any islamic institute, but it was forwarded to my e-mail from my other muslim friend, so I decided to post it in here. Again, I'm sorry. Thanx.

Dear Sister,

As I told you, beware of email scams like these, especially if they also ask you to spread them. Their only purpose is to mystify Quran through numbers etc. Its better for us to understand Quran through its meanings and then realize its importance through its implementation on our daily lives rather than praising Quran merely on such numeral bases (one can not use word "mathematically" even in such cases) which has no significance at all. Hope you would now spread this idea in the reverse direction of the chain of emails that finally got through you. Rest Allah knows the best. 

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farithrezza View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farithrezza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2005 at 8:07pm
[edited]

Edited by farithrezza - 29 April 2009 at 8:09pm
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