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Question about the Prophet

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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2009 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Pati Pati wrote:

Hi everyone,
 
I have a question about P. Muhammad (PBUH).
 
Is it certified any miracle he did? I mean, in the same way that Jesus did with Lazaro (a disabled person to whom Jesus asked to "stand up and walk", and did), or the multiplication of bread & fishs, or the walk over the sea...
 
Is it certified any miracle from the Prophet?
 
Thanks in advance for any answer you may give me.
 
Patricia


A miracle is defined as an extraordinary event happening only on the hands of a prophet, by the command of Allah swt. It is also characterized as an event that cannot be challenged or paralleled as it is not a usual event that takes place in everyday life. The invention of an airplane, for example, cannot be considered a miracle since a miracle happens only to those who have received the revelation from Allah.

Imam ash-Shafi^iyy said:" For every miracle Allah gave to the other Prophets, He gave Prophet Muhammad a similar or a greater miracle".

When the people of Prophet Salih asked him for a miracle, Allah supported Prophet Salih (peace be upon him) by bringing forth a camel and its calf from a solid rock. Upon seeing that, some people embraced Islam and others yet still did not.

Likewise, Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Lady Mariam was supported with Miracles when he called the people to the religion of Islam and to believe in the oneness of Allah. The people at the time of Prophet Jesus were renowned for their high level of skill in Medicine. The people could not match what he did by the will of Allah as He supported him with miracles such as reviving the dead and curing blindness and leprosy. These two diseases in particular were usually considered untreatable by the people of his time who were skillful in medicine. None of them were able to do what Prophet Jesus did, no one was able to revive the dead or cure the blind or cure leprosy by placing their hand on the person or wiping over his eyes. These are extraordinary events occurring only for Prophets by the will of Allah. If all the non-believers were to unite their efforts in an attempt to match a prophet�s miracle they would only be met with failure.


As for Muhammad (peace be upon him), Allah the Exalted supported him with many miracles. The people of Prophet Muhammad were famous for their Arabic language eloquence. The greatest miracle given to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Holy Qur�an, the Book which is always preserved from perversion. It is a miracle that stood the test of time lasting for centuries and remains unchallenged until the Day of Resurrection. Despite of the Arabs proficiency in the Arabic language they were unable to come up with an Ayah which is similar to a single Ayah in the Holy Qur`an. 

Amongst Prophet Muhammad�s miracles (peace be upon him), one which happened on the day of the trench. As the companions (may Allah have mercy on them) were digging they came across a large rock that they could not dig out, so they informed their leader Muhammad (peace be upon him) who took the pickaxe, said �Bismillah� three times and then hit the rock once only to see it disintegrate to the ground in the form of running sand.

On several occasions, he fed a large number of people on the diet of one person, quenched the thirst of thousands of companions with one small potful of water. He talked to the animals, trees and Jennies, foretold a large number of events, travelled to Jerusalem and heavens within a few moments time, divided and reunited the moon by pointing a finger and performed a lot of other miracles. Even when he was a child, a Christian saint recognized him as a future Prophet. The saint witnessed the trees bowing before him and a patch of cloud moving over his head as he walked.

Many such miracles happened but not a single miracle was given by Allah swt when the disbelievers demanded.

Following are few of the answers in reply to the disbelievers demand that "Why is not a sign sent down to Him from His Lord?

Have they not been given sufficient proofs (of your Prophet hood) in the previous Books (20:133)

Your mission is (not showing them the miracles) but only to give warning (of the Hereafter) (13:7)

Say, Allah is well able to send down a sign but most of them do not know (what that sign would be).(6:37)


Why is not Quran referring to the miracles, the Prophet(Pbuh) often performed inn reply to the demand?

Because, the Last Prophet(Pbuh) was not to be a guide for a certain period and certain people. The later men of the scientific age would believe in a living proof only. They would call fairy tales, the stories of the Prophet(Pbuh) conversing with trees and animals, if recorded in Quran. Besides, those who did not want to believe, always scoffed at the earlier Prophets(pbuh) when confronted with the signs, calling if sorcery, magic or trickstery. The Quran says: If thou camest unto them with a miracle, those who disbelieve would verliy exclaim: Ye are but tricksters. (30:58)

And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion! (54:2)

That is why the Almighty gave him a living sign, a final argument for the men of all ages to come. The sign is the safe and Final Word of God, The Quran.

Is it not a miracle that despite the descriptions of a large number of verses describing universe and its phenomon, not a single verse, sent down 1400 years ago can be contradicted by modern science? Is it not a miracle that the stages of creation of man, detailed by Quran cannot be challenged by medical science after 1400 years?

Is it not a miracle that a civilisation, not mentioned in any earlier scripture or historical record, was excavated in the desert of Oman after 5000 years in 1992 and the Quran had described its details at more than a dozen places!

The Quran had claimed 1400 years ago that its authenticity will increase with the passage of the universe.

But it is plain miracles (hidden for the time) inside the hearts of those endowed with (scientific) knowledge. Only the wrong doers deny our signs. And (yet) they say, why are not portents sent down upon him from his Lord? say: Portents are with Allah (to be made manifest in time) and my mission is only to give plain warning. (29:49,50)

We shall show them our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it (The Quran) is the Truth (14:53) - Source {islamic voice, darul Ifta}

And yes when the miracle of splitting of moon was shown {not on there demand], they just called it magic.Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did perform miracles, however in the eyes of the disbelievers this was nothing more than magic and they still kept on demanding signs. Just because they did not receive the specific signs that they asked for that does not mean that no signs were showed to them at all.

And yes Pati, even while their demands of signs were fulfilled by Allah's permission, these disbelievers, did not accept them as Prophet. Musa AS, Isa , Salih AS, likewise all the Prophets who showed miracles by the permission of Allah swt, had very few followers. If people had to believe they believe, they don't need miracles.


Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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salahuddeen2009 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salahuddeen2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2009 at 8:26pm
salam Patti
you believe that God is complete,this contradicts with the new testament that makes God divisable(3parts= father,son&spirit) &  logic says:1+1+1=3
 
you also believe that God is good ,never makes mistakes nor does something bad,this contradicts with what bible says,just read the following phrase in the old testament: 
Exodus
32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Now,if God ,according to your belief ,never does a mistake,then ,why do you think Jesus on the cross had made his famous cry to God,according to the new testament:

Mt 27:46  
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Was jesus not sure About God's perfect Decisions(this means that you,Patti are more trusting God than Jesus himself!!,that's why you never cry to God like jesus did,asking him why did you do so & so to me,right?)?

or did jesus object against His Job on earth &was asking to RESIGN?


Edited by icforumadmin - 19 September 2009 at 1:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2009 at 1:14am
Originally posted by salahuddeen2009 salahuddeen2009 wrote:


salam Patti
you believe that God is complete,this contradicts with the new testament that makes God divisable(3parts= father,son&spirit) &  logic says:1+1+1=3



Hi Salahuddeen,

It's not matter of a material division of God, there is no material on it. It's not like "one apple+ one apple + one apple = three apples!". It's another thing, related to the different roles of God: Father of the Humanity, Son because He understands our feelings, cause He sent his Son, part of Him, to live like a normal person, and to feel like a normal person, and Holly Spirit, that is the Faith itself.

I already gave an explanation before (not in this post, I think): My mother is my mother, but she is my father's wife too, and her mother daughter, as well as friends of her friends. But at the end, she is only one person, developing different roles.

I don't want to compare my mother with God, but I hope it works as example for you.

It's not matter of numbers, really (even if we call it Trinity Wink).


Originally posted by salahuddeen2009 salahuddeen2009 wrote:


 
you also believe that God is good ,never makes mistakes nor does something bad,this contradicts with what bible says,just read the following phrase in the old testament: 
Exodus
32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Now,if God ,according to your belief ,never does a mistake,then ,why do you think Jesus on the cross had made his famous cry to God,according to the new testament:

Mt 27:46  
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Was jesus not sure About God's perfect Decisions(this means that you,Patti are more trusting God than Jesus himself!!,that's why you never cry to God like jesus did,asking him why did you do so & so to me,right?)?

or did jesus object against His Job on earth &was asking to RESIGN?


Jesus was sent in the way of a person, with our fears and doubts sometimes. He was afraid from dying minutes before He left the Earth... but at the end, god showed Him the light to take Him back to the Heaven.

At the same time, it's philosophy and a lesson to learn: Jesus in the Cross had a doubt of God, thinking that God had forgot him... but at the end, God didn't do and took Him to the Heaven. How many millions of people did have that doubt of God's existence? But at the end, God is always there.

That's our understanding, at least.


Salams,
Patricia
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2009 at 4:35pm
Pati,
what you are saying when you say"Jesus was sent in the way of a person, with our fears and doubts sometimes. He was afraid from dying minutes before He left the Earth... but at the end, god showed Him the light to take Him back to the Heaven." that Jesus was a man, what he was before his birth and after his resurrection is really not for us to decide. But I am glad that you finally do say that "he was sent in the way of a man" you are just hesitant to say clearly that he was a man when he was Jesus, the man we know to have walked on the earth, who had fears like anyone of us, who ate, who was born and weaned like any one of us. Was given prophethood like many prophets before, was given miracles and word of God.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 19 September 2009 at 4:36pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2009 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by Pati Pati wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Hola Pati,
let me ask you a question: In Catholicism who is refered to as " Madre de Dios" ??
 
Take care,
Hasan


Hola Hasan,

Yes, it is. Maria, Madre de Dios. And we refer to the Church as the "Santa Madre Iglesia" too (Saint Mother Church).

Because for us, Maria was the mother of God, the mother of Jesus who was part of God and God as the same time (not engendered by God, just created).


Originally posted by salahuddeen2009 salahuddeen2009 wrote:

 salam Patti
you said(For us, Jesus during His stay on Earth was God's Son (Special Creation), but after His Death, He became part of God, coming back to His origins. I don't find any contradiction there.)
Do doyou mean that God was Incomplete!!till jesus Died!!?


Do you mean God has a shape? Do you mean God is finite? Do you mean God is something material?

I don't think so, sorry. God is complete, never uncomplete. God is perfection, never makes any mistake. God is good, nothing bad comes from Him.

Salams,
 
 
Thank you Patti,
your answer really is interesting and true from Catholic understanding, according to which, Mary (as) (the mother of Jesus pbuh) is said to be the "mother of God."
But my concerns are reality and truth based. Your reply raises several questions, I will pose two:
1) In God, the Son, the Holy spirit (Trinity) where does the mother fit, and the Mother of God is not God, but son of God is, Why? can you answer that question for me?
Is the mother less than the son even though she is referred and regarded as Mother of God (Madre de Dios)?
2) If Mary is the mother of God, (remember it does not say mother of the son of God, rather "mother of God" that makes Mary Jesus' grandmother?
I am just being reasonable with what the claims are according to the Catholic church which you follow.
 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2009 at 5:13am
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

 
Thank you Patti,
your answer really is interesting and true from Catholic understanding, according to which, Mary (as) (the mother of Jesus pbuh) is said to be the "mother of God."
But my concerns are reality and truth based. Your reply raises several questions, I will pose two:



Hi Hasan,

First of all, I wish you a happy Eid Mubarak to you and all your family. I hope it's going to be a very special day to you all Wink

I will try to answer your questions:

1) In God, the Son, the Holy spirit (Trinity) where does the mother fit, and the Mother of God is not God, but son of God is, Why? can you answer that question for me?
Is the mother less than the son even though she is referred and regarded as Mother of God (Madre de Dios)?

Well, for us, Maria the Virgin is the ideal believer, the most holly person... and I repeat PERSON ever in the Earth. It's said that the Evil was afraid from her, because of her believes and strength to defend it.

And at the same time, she was the chosen to be the physical mother, the person who gave him love, education, formation, etc. She was so perfect that God chose her to send her his Son.

Some people say that Maria is the Third part of the Trinity, and in one way she may be, because this Third is the believe in God, and she was the perfect believer, with impeccable behaviour during her life.

She was not part of God, but human, and she was the chosen to have in her womb the Son of God during 9 months, time while she felt the touch of God. She gave the life to the Son of God, as well as her love and principles.



2) If Mary is the mother of God, (remember it does not say mother of the son of God, rather "mother of God" that makes Mary Jesus' grandmother?
I am just being reasonable with what the claims are according to the Catholic church which you follow.
 
I think you are just mixing things: She was mother of Jesus and as Jesus was part of God, she was mother of God and developing that role. But she was not the mother of God itself, because was not engendered, as you also defend.

She was not grandmother of Jesus, only His mother, and a normal person whose believes made her special between the whole humanity.

At the same time, we see her as the Mother of the believers, but not a physical mother, but an spiritual one, because of her perfection at every level.


Kind regards
Patricia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2009 at 10:58am

Everyone,

 

Please understand that we are supposed to discuss the topic from Islamic standpoint in this section. However, if you want to discuss the topic from various perspectives, including Islam and Christianity, the topic should be moved to the Interfaith section. Or a separate thread should be created in the interfaith section.

 

Peace

 

 



Edited by peacemaker - 20 September 2009 at 11:00am
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2009 at 3:31pm
Eid Greetings to All.
Pati, I will have to move this topic " Madre de Dios" to interfaith section as brother peacemaker is right. We have drifted away from the topic.
May Allah guide us All to the Right, Ameen.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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