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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Points: 485 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2014 at 5:43am

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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:55am
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kodoo kodoo wrote:

I am from Turkey and I know the history of Ottomans more than any.

Though Ottoman Empire was a barrier to the western invasion (crusades) and I like it, and the nation was Islamic.

Other than that, the leaders were hypocrite. They never worked to serve the nations. They always were after worldly gains. From its beginning. Look up how it was founded. There were many Dynasties after the Seljuks split up. And Ottoman Dynasty fought each and every one of these Muslim Dynasties to have their lands. Later, fighting Iranian Muslims. Later fighting Mamluk Muslims (Egypt) over and over. Look up Ottoman-Egypt wars. The emperors were always after power. They made Muslims fight against each other. They were this sickeningly attached to their thrones and worldly gains that, even they made it permissible to kill every innocent relative of theirs even in the cradle (so that there won't be a fight for throne). Look up how "Mehmed the Conqueror" killed his own baby brother. Look up how "Suleiman the Magnificent" killed 17 of his family members (children, nephews, grandkids in the cradle). etc. They had nothing to do with Islam. They were just a bunch of rulers after worldly gains.

Greetings kodoo,

Yes, this is the thing I always find most disturbing, how families had so little love for one another that they would kill each other for power... fathers, sons, brothers, all willing to kill one another.  It is sick.  This is why republic works best... where leaders are elected in open campaigns... and not pre-selected.

asalaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 15 October 2014 at 11:00am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Points: 485 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2014 at 3:00pm

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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:56am
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:57am
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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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The modern concept of liberty and freedom has its origins in the Greek concepts.

"Roman law also embraced certain limited forms of liberty, even under the rule of the Roman Emperors. However, these liberties were accorded only to Roman citizens. Many of the liberties enjoyed under Roman law endured through the Middle Ages, but were enjoyed solely by the nobility, never by the common man. The idea of unalienable and universal liberties had to wait until the Age of Enlightenment."
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:58am
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Glorious Ottomans.
 
In 1453, the Ottoman troops of Sultan Mehmet II take Constantinople and put an end to the Byzantine empire. They establish their domination over the majority Christian part of eastern Mediterranea. Crusades are crushed in Nicopolis, Varna and Algiers.

Greetings Muslim75,

Do you understand why the crusades started to begin with?  (they were a reaction, not an aggression... they were a reaction to an aggressor and oppressor) ... and supposedly islam teaches against oppression?

Look up 'the first crusade'.

asalaam,
Caringheart

You are quite correct in your statement; 'They establish their domination'... they were oppressors.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Originally posted by kodoo kodoo wrote:

I am from Turkey and I know the history of Ottomans more than any.

Though Ottoman Empire was a barrier to the western invasion (crusades) and I like it, and the nation was Islamic.

Other than that, the leaders were hypocrite. They never worked to serve the nations. They always were after worldly gains. From its beginning. Look up how it was founded. There were many Dynasties after the Seljuks split up. And Ottoman Dynasty fought each and every one of these Muslim Dynasties to have their lands. Later, fighting Iranian Muslims. Later fighting Mamluk Muslims (Egypt) over and over. Look up Ottoman-Egypt wars. The emperors were always after power. They made Muslims fight against each other. They were this sickeningly attached to their thrones and worldly gains that, even they made it permissible to kill every innocent relative of theirs even in the cradle (so that there won't be a fight for throne). Look up how "Mehmed the Conqueror" killed his own baby brother. Look up how "Suleiman the Magnificent" killed 17 of his family members (children, nephews, grandkids in the cradle). etc. They had nothing to do with Islam. They were just a bunch of rulers after worldly gains.

But Ottoman nation was great in general, though they were used against other Muslims (Persia, Egypt) sometimes. And sadly, the history is repeating itself. And now Turkish regime is after joining the EU, to serve NATO causes more and the government is using the nation to fight against Muslims in the region. So sad, how the progeny of that great nation -whcih stood up against western colonialism- is now used for NATO colonialism against Muslims of the region.
 
Islamic traditional knowledge holds as a tenet that Allah Almighty made possible to carry the Ottoman crown only for most select people. An Ottoman Sultan is not like an ordinary person.


So it was OK for him to commit murder then?

Killing his relatives in the cradle is OK?

If that's how Islam works you can see why it gets a bad rep.
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