Gabriel: "Read" or "Recite?" |
Post Reply | Page <12345 9> |
Author | ||||||||||
Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
And what?
As a gentile Christian, you have been raised and taught that reading a scritpure in a language not of the original is as good as the orignial language. It was Christians who wanted to push for the King James version to be the offical bible in the English language. Given the context of a scripture, and the loss of meaning when translating any language into another langauge, especially two langauges that have nothing in common, it is a matter of limitation that prevents someone from tranlating a verse perfectly.
I notice you bring up similar issues commonly pushed with detractors such as Sam Shamoun, and common minor points engendered from events that can be twisted by reductionist type questioning such that the event has been dissected into the realm of ambiguity. Hack polemicists like Sam Shamoun and his friends then use this artifically induced realm of ambiguity to hurl conclusions that simply do not follow from their questions. I am not accusing you of copying him, I am just pointing out the seeming similiarity. If you are asking questions becuase you have honestly studied the material, then my hat is off to you.
Case for Read and the Prophet is able to scribble charcters for the purpose of business and reading limited to basic recognition of this limited writing ability: Gd is not dependent upon a man writing words on a piece paper in order for the man to read the material Gd is wanting read. Being able to scribble a few characters that make up a name, initals, or a mark of representation does not allow him to put forth the work one finds in the Quran, no more than a man who can balance his check book could solve Fermat's last theorem. Case for Read and the Prophet was unable to write or read anything: Recognizing symbols or characters and converting them to meaning has a first cause from Gd as everything esle does. Gd is not dependent upon the education of a man for him to be able to read something the He requests. Case for recite and the Prophet could understand crude charcters and limited writings: Oral societies communicate with language and transmit it through orally expresive means, the langugae carries a meaning without it having been written on paper. The Prophet would then have "recited" the information given to him without having to know how to read and still have understanding of the meaning of what he was reciting. Being uneducated does not mean being incapable of communicating in one's native tongue.
Reciting can mean both "proper reading of the Quran according to the rules of tajwid and understanding what you recite", or "proper reading of the Quran in terms of tajwid and having not idea of what is begin recited", or "proper reading of the Quran according to the rules of tajwid and having some understanding of what is being recited".
Refer to the Fermat analogy.
Refer to the Fermat analogy. Keep in mind that there are various degrees of illiteracy, and you are trying to force the common detractors interpretation based upon assumption while ignoring the other possibilities. Peace |
||||||||||
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
||||||||||
Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
You are trying to force an interpretation of "illiteracy" in terms of the degree of illiteracy of the Prophet (saw) and you are trying to force an assumption that his degree of illiteracy was static. I am sure you can balance your check book, but that does not mean you are capable of solving Fermat's last theorem. If someone solved it and was "math illiterate", this seemingly "miraculous" feat would not change from being almost "miraculous" if the man could balance his check book. The claim would change if we find that the man had a PHD in mthematics and was a student of a great mathematician. Peace Edited by Andalus |
||||||||||
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
||||||||||
Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
Assalamu Alaikum: I have met women from Afghanistan who were illiterate, yet when asked they can write their signature, or mark, which is necessary for a marriage contract. How many times have you heard, "make your mark here"? In the instances of the Hadith you site, the Prophet(PBUH) was sending letters to the leaders of neighboring countries, getting married, etc... all that would have been sufficient would have been His mark, or signature. The Hadiths do not state that the Prophet(PBUH) wrote a manuscript or novel. Above all, the Hadith are the actions or statements of the Prophet(PBUH) written by men. The Hadith are not the Word of God: The Quran. If there is a discrepency between a Hadith and what is stated in the Quran, the Quran will take precedence. Always. Edited by Mishmish |
||||||||||
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
||||||||||
BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
George, Have you answered my following question or not yet? I am waiting. "Question time now: A very important question and answer it very carefully, please: Did Jesus know how to write?" Please let me know as soon as possible. |
||||||||||
George
Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
We know that Jesus wrote in the dirt during the stoning incident. We know that Jesus could read because he read the Scriptures out loud from the scrolls. We also know that Jesus helped Joseph in the family business, so I would say that there is a good chance that Jesus could write. |
||||||||||
George
Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. What difference does it make whether Muhammad could read or write or not?
|
||||||||||
BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
George, Thanks for saying: "We know that Jesus wrote in the dirt during the stoning incident. We know that Jesus could read because he read the Scriptures out loud from the scrolls. We also know that Jesus helped Joseph in the family business, so I would say that there is a good chance that Jesus could write." Has anyone got a small little piece or even an inch-square papyrus of Jesus' own wriitng? Were there any scribes with Jesus when he was delivering sermons and speeches? I am really shocked that none of his loving disciples or followers kept a piece of any writing done by him. I thought James might have kept some writings of his dear brother. Thanks
Edited by bmzsp |
||||||||||
BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
Post Reply | Page <12345 9> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |