IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Antichrist  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Antichrist

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
Message
ejdavid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 August 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejdavid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2006 at 4:36am
Shery

I understand your English better then you understand mine, so I must be more carefull. I agree Judaism (Orthodox, not Reform) is closer to Islam then Christianity.

Christianity does not have divine law, other then the ten commandments. Accordingly, we adjust laws to accomodate the times. For instance, we no longer need to call witnesses to determinge who raped an underage girl. We use DNA. I think Sharia Law requires four male Muslim wittnesses.

Perhaps under Sharia Law DNA counts the same as four Muslim witnesses if a Muslim does the test?? Can you find that out for me?

Incidentally, you have an interesting script in your posts. Is somesthing like Hindi?
Back to Top
Servetus View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Male
Joined: 04 April 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Servetus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2006 at 9:38am

Quote:

The Councel of Nicea in the fourth century CE sorted through dozens of texts - gospels and otherwise, and selected those now in the new testament. That is really the beginning of organized and standardized Christianity.

EJDavid,

As a side note, could you please provide a source?  I do know that this is commonly asserted, or thought, but you might be interested to review this page, by the competent Roger Pearse, wherein, as I understand, he largely deconstructs the notion that the pivotal Council of Nicea involved itself with selecting the books of the canon, or New Testament.

Thanks.

Serv

Ref:   http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html



Edited by Servetus
Back to Top
Shery View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 September 2006
Location: Egypt
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2006 at 9:58am

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery

I understand your English better then you understand mine, so I must be more carefull. I agree Judaism (Orthodox, not Reform) is closer to Islam then Christianity.

Christianity does not have divine law, other then the ten commandments. Accordingly, we adjust laws to accomodate the times. For instance, we no longer need to call witnesses to determinge who raped an underage girl. We use DNA. I think Sharia Law requires four male Muslim wittnesses.

Perhaps under Sharia Law DNA counts the same as four Muslim witnesses if a Muslim does the test?? Can you find that out for me?

Incidentally, you have an interesting script in your posts. Is somesthing like Hindi?

 

Script is in arabic and from koran

so please dont mock as long as I m respecting you and answering you all your questions ,,

There s a verses when Prophet noah said to his people :

Surah Hud verses 38 to 49

I hope you would learn something from this verses

and your english is difficult cuz you chose to make it difficult

I m positive you can make it easier for me and clarify what you want for me

 

38. Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the chiefs of his people passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!

39. "But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a penalty that will cover them with shame,- on whom will be unloosed a penalty lasting:"

40. At length, behold! there came Our command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein, of each kind two, male and female, and your family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth,- and the Believers." but only a few believed with him.

41. So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark, In the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"

42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"

43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.

44. Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

45. And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!"

46. He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"

47. Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge. And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"

48. The word came: "O Noah! Come down (from the Ark) with peace from Us, and blessing on thee and on some of the peoples (who will spring) from those with thee: but (there will be other) peoples to whom We shall grant their pleasures (for a time), but in the end will a grievous penalty reach them from Us."

49. Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous.

-------

About the DNA

Atcually what you dont understand that when 4 witness would wintness that a woman and men slept together that would lead them for flog

and the 4 wintness in the condition of fornication ,,,

According to the DNA subject

I will copy and paste some articles I have google

and I did read and I like them and I would like you to read them too

AS I believe that I m not qualified to answer from my head because i m not that educated in quoran ...

Origin of man in Islam: Creation or Evolution

ISLAM EVOLUTION CREATION

The Christian Bible says that Adam & Eve were both created here on Earth, less than 10,000 years ago. The Quran says that Adam & Eve were created in Heaven, and NOT on Earth. When they disobeyed God, He expelled them from Heaven, down to Earth. The Quran does not say when this happened. Also the Quran does not say whether Adam & Eve were physically transported from Heaven to Earth, or just their souls were put into the already living homo sapiens.

Muslims believe that souls are assigned to humans 40 days after the human inception. The Quran says that angels retrieve human souls on two occasions. One occasion is when humans die. The other occasion is every time humans fall asleep. When humans wakeup, the angels release those souls back to them:

(Quran 39.42) It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that did not die, during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back, but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

So, according to the Quran, humans can be alive, breathing, with fully functional bodies (hence perfect DNA), but still without souls.

Homo sapiens had the same bodies and DNA as humans, but what about their souls? Were the souls of the first humans (Adam & Eve) put into those evolved homo sapiens? To answer this question, we need more information about souls and spirits. But Allah clearly bans all information about souls and spirits:

(Quran 17.85) And they ask you about the Spirit, say: "The Spirit concerns only my Lord: The knowledge of which only a little is communicated to you"

So all the information that will answer whether or not the souls of the first humans were put into homo sapiens, is banned. Muslims don�t venture into this topic simply because God ordered them not to.

However, this is not the case concerning animals. The Quran agrees with science that all life started in water, and not on dry land:

(Quran 24.45) And Allah has created every animal from water; of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills: for verily Allah has power over all things.

So the Quran agrees with science on the evolution of animals. But for humans, the Quran stops short of answering whether it was transportation from heaven or just homo sapiens with human souls.

DNA research point to the later scenario; but why couldn�t God use for Adam & Eve the same DNA as homo sapiens? Isn�t this DNA of His own creation in the first place? And how difficult is it to copy?

�� ���� ����� ����� �� ���� ����� ��������� �����

�� ����� ������� �� �����

��� ���� �� ����� ��� ����� �������

����� ��� ������ ����� �� ���� �������

����� ������ � ���� ������� ����
Back to Top
ejdavid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 August 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejdavid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2006 at 8:26am
Shery - Thanks for all the work!

My difficult writing? My job 25 years: write for educated English. I do not make hard on purpose. This paragraph is best can do. Took five times long then first time. My appologies.... but is good thing try.

Last words take three minutes choose. First write: "In fact, it was a good litterary exercise!" Those words in brain before typing.

As for DNA. You know Sharia Experts? Maybe you ask does DNA meets Sharia requirement for evidence? Thank you for your help! I ALMOST wrote "Thank you for your assistance!".



Back to Top
Hanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Joined: 27 July 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1035
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2006 at 9:07am

.



Edited by Hanan
Back to Top
Shery View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 September 2006
Location: Egypt
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2006 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Shery wrote: so please dont mock as long as I m respecting you and answering you all your questions ,,

Sister,

You should not feel insulted, although it was exactly what he intended to do. You should be commended for your excellent command of the english language. I also speak english as a second language and when someone mocks me I tell them: "As soon as you spreak MY language as good as I speak YOURS, then I will allow you to correct/mock me."

ejdavid's problem is that he can't refute or perhaps even understand most of what you're telling him, he therefore wants to distract with personal attacks. This happens here quite frequently. Not everyone is as educated as you are, and  I read your posts with interest because much of what you say is new to me too.

Please continue to write.

Waasalam

 

Dear Hanan

your words means a lot to me

and from people religious as you , and I was very much impressed of what you write about prophet mohamed and many other religious issue

I feel so proud to hear from you that I m educated person

I consider you and the people here are very educated and I m very proud that there s muslims educated as you .( mashallah )

and I m very proud that you are welcoming me here  

hamdulilah

Dont worry I have met worse than this guy on internet

I fight anyone against islam and against Arab in general

even if I hated the way that our leaders are ruling our countries

that wouldnt makes me turn against them , cuz I wont let ( the plotters ) reach their aims

Inshallah I will try to write things ( i hope it interest everyone and be also beneficial for everyone) inshallah

 

Salam alikom wa rahmet allah.

�� ���� ����� ����� �� ���� ����� ��������� �����

�� ����� ������� �� �����

��� ���� �� ����� ��� ����� �������

����� ��� ������ ����� �� ���� �������

����� ������ � ���� ������� ����
Back to Top
Shery View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 September 2006
Location: Egypt
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2006 at 10:18am

Originally posted by ejdavid ejdavid wrote:

Shery - Thanks for all the work!

My difficult writing? My job 25 years: write for educated English. I do not make hard on purpose. This paragraph is best can do. Took five times long then first time. My appologies.... but is good thing try.

Last words take three minutes choose. First write: "In fact, it was a good litterary exercise!" Those words in brain before typing.

As for DNA. You know Sharia Experts? Maybe you ask does DNA meets Sharia requirement for evidence? Thank you for your help! I ALMOST wrote "Thank you for your assistance!".

 

ejdavid

No problem you seems that you really worked in education cuz i did hate all my teachers !

i like to clarify something here

this topic is talking about antichrist

and I wished that you talk about this matter with me instead of DNA

cuz I m not expert or ( shikha )

But defenitely you did hear about ( fr james schall ) cuz he is very well known in USA .

and georgetown university is very well known in USA on the politics role in the white house and the government

so Please I like to ask you to stick on the topic

and if you like to discuss DNA please open a new thread with it

And I might come and read what the islamic expert says about it

cuz again I m not expert and so wrong when some1 is ( ignorant in something ) and he would talk about it

cuz I m ight sound rediculious and i would never explain as some1 expert

anyhow you are still welcome from my side to ask me whatever you like if I can answer it

and if you are really interested to gather more information about islam

why dont you come over here in egypt and try some experts who can argue you

and if you are not conveinced consider it as a vacation and return to USA

Best regards professor feel free to ask whatever you want as long as there s respect between eachother

you came ( supposely ) from the side of the world that they call it ( CIVILIZED ) and ( I came from the third world ) as you call it

So I dont think that I need to define for you ( RESPECT BETWEEN NATION )

because first you are a teacher , 2 you came from USA ( THE COUNTRY OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH ,3 you are the one who killing dozen of people on the name of democracy

 

So please practice some of what you claim ,,, and try to deal with muslims with some respect cuz we dont mind your question

but the way you are asking with it

Either you are here to learn and to increase your education level

either you are here to waste some times and mocking from other ,,, and you can do that in your own county cuz you have a lot of stuff you can mock at

 

 I been there and we also can discuss that

 

Best wishes

shery



�� ���� ����� ����� �� ���� ����� ��������� �����

�� ����� ������� �� �����

��� ���� �� ����� ��� ����� �������

����� ��� ������ ����� �� ���� �������

����� ������ � ���� ������� ����
Back to Top
Shery View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 September 2006
Location: Egypt
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2006 at 11:34am

More information about Fr james schall attached with a picture

 

Father Schall is a Professor in the Department of Government at Georgetown University. He is the author of numerous books, including: Another Sort of Learning (Ignatius Press, 1988); At the Limits of Political Philosophy (Catholic University of America Press, 1996); Reason, Revelation, and the Foundations of Political Philosophy (LSU Press, 1987); Idylls and Rambles (Ignatius Press, 1994); and Schall on Chesterton: Timely Essays on Timeless Paradoxes (Catholic University of America Press, 2000).

ISI Books

 

James V. Schall, S. J.

  Georgetown University, DC, 20057-1200

   www.moreC.com/schall   � 28 February 2003

 

BELLOC ON THE �APPARENTLY UNCONVERTIBLE� RELIGION

                   �Islam is apparently unconvertible.  The missionary efforts made by great Catholic orders which have been occupied in trying to turn Mohammedans into Christians for nearly 400 years have everywhere wholly failed.  We have in some places driven the Mohammedan master out and freed his Christian subjects from Mohammedan control, but we have had hardly any effect in converting individual Mohammedans....�

                                                                                                                                            � Hilaire Belloc, The Great Heresies, 1938.1

                   �Muhammad�s monotheism began, no doubt, as a rejection of paganism; yet it was highly positive.  It was, as he never ceased repeating, the monotheism of Israel.  The god of Islam was Yahweh, without those truths about Him revealed by Christ. ... The Qur�~n denies the Incarnation:  �God is one, eternal.  He did not beget and was unbegotten� (Qur�~n, 112.3).  For Muhammad there was no redeemer, no need for redemption, no original sin.�

             � J. Kritzeck/C. Wilde, �Islam,� New Catholic Encyclopedia (2d Edition, 2003), V. 7, 608.

 

                   �But there is no hiding the fact that bin Laden, his lieutenants, and his foot soldiers have repeatedly stated their aim to impose their values of Islam on, first, the Muslim world and, then, the rest of the world.  They want each country to accept or be forced into submission to their version of Islamic Shari�a law....  Their public statements, their strategy and recruitment, the notes and prayers left by the airplane hijackers, all show a deep religious commitment.  They do not lament inequality; decry poverty, or call for democracy.  They do not rant about globalization or consumerism or capitalism.  They explicitly name and target Christianity, Judaism, and moderate Islam.  By all means let us call this inauthentic religion, perverted religion, hijacked religion.  But, at the cost of blinding ourselves, let us never forget that it is religion.�

                                                                                                                                                                        

I d like to add a note here ( see they are all repeat what they read about james schall and other christian politics who works in george town university

and that is what we face everyday in all forums they only talk about that islam was to dominate them and apply sharia ... I want you to read carefully what james schall said about islam and I would like you to check more about GT university and JS

On the Term "Islamo-Fascism"
| Fr. James V. Schall, S.J. | August 15, 2006


I.   The war in which we are currently engaged confuses us, in part because many will not admit it is a war. We do not know what to call it. Nor do we know what to call the self-declared enemy who has been attacking us in one form or another for some twenty-five years, ever more visibly and dangerously since 9/11, 2001, with subsequent events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Spain, London, Bombay, Bali, Paris, Lebanon, and Israel.

There are those who insist that it is not a "war" at all but perhaps, at best, a police issue -- no big problem. Others contend that it is a result of American or Western expansionism so that its cure is simply for us to return to our frontiers and be content with what we have. If we do this withdrawal, every threat will immediately cease at this point. In another view it is due to poverty and oppression, even though most of the perpetrators of the war are quite rich. Yet another interpretation is that this turmoil stems from a very small minority with no relation to national or religious origins, a kind of floating international brigade of bandits, like the Mafia, out for their own profit and glory. The variants on these themes are almost infinite.

What names should we use that will accurately define and designate the cause? Calling things by their right names is the first requirement of reality; refusing to do so, the first cause of confusion, if not defeat. At first, we were told that the war is against something called "terrorism." Its perpetrators were logically called "terrorists." It was considered "hate-language" to call them anything else. However, we find listed on no map a place called "Terroritoria," where said "terrorists" otherwise dwell in peace plotting our demise. It has no capital, no military uniform for its mostly invisible troops, no rules of combat. In this designation, some difficult ensues when we try to identify or designate a group that just wants to "terrorize" others, as if that is an explanation. Some may like to travel or to fish for pleasure; they like "terror" for terror's sake, just a question of taste.

Of course, this membership in a supposed organization called "Terror International" is not what the known "terrorists" claim for themselves. They look on this designation with contempt since it misses the whole nature of what they think that they are doing. But the term "terrorism" seems temporarily useful because it avoids the politics of naming more carefully just who these actual men (and women) are who carry out these, to us, seemingly senseless bombings. Are they so "senseless" after all? That is, do they have their own rationale and are we intellectually willing to face what it is?

All along, as a chief tactic of the "terrorists," we have had "suicide bombers." "Suicide bombing" is, thus far, the main delivery system of the "terrorists." It is remarkably effective in creating immediate chaos. We have almost forgotten how used we have become to this utterly corrupt practice that undermines, and seeks to undermine, the very basis of any possible civilization opposed to it. Those who practice "suicide bombing" (it is a once in a lifetime occupation, to be sure) call themselves "martyrs." They are, when successful, treated as heroes by other "terrorists" and their admirers. Thus, the same action is called in one political zone "terrorism," while, in another, it is called "martyrdom." What do words mean?

To perform this switch of meaning, of course, the "terrorists" had also to call the "victims" of "suicide bombers," not innocent objects of terrorism, as we call them, but guilty opponents of the cause for which "terrorism" really stands, its religious mission in the world. Even when people of one's own religion are killed, they are said, theologically, like the "suicide bombers" themselves, to have been done a favor in reaching heaven more quickly.

So what language do we use to speak of this horrendous situation? We also hear used the word "Islamicist," or "Islamism." We hear "Jihadists," or holy warriors. We are struck with the fierceness with which the "terrorists" themselves reject being called "fascists" or, what they also are, "terrorists." They sense that the term, "Islamo-fascism," or any of its variants, undermines or disparages what, in their own minds, is the legitimacy or morality of their "cause." We have here an issue that forces us to consider the very roots of the "terrorists'" understanding of their own motivations.

The fact that almost all the "terrorists," no matter their country of birth, have Muslim origins, moreover, brings us up against our own ecumenical or liberal theories, which do not allow us to "profile" or stigmatize or even accuse of bad motives those who do carry out the killings. The argument sometimes goes: All religions are "peaceful." Islam is a religion. Therefore, Islam is peaceful. This is not an historical syllogism that explains the actual record of the expansion of Islam from its beginning in Arabia till its reaching Tours in the eighth century and Vienna in the sixteenth. Nor does it explain the violence and law used within Muslim states to prevent any expression of faith or philosophy that does not conform to their own understanding of the Koran. This earlier expansion was almost exclusively by military conquest, often extremely brutal, against Christian, Persian, Hindu, or other lands.


II.  More recently, the term "Islamo-fascism" has been coined in an effort to describe the source and nature of "terrorism." I want to examine the appropriateness of this term, as I think it serves to get at the core of the problem. Is "Islamo-fascism" really accurate for what the reality is? Initially, the term obviously is not a product of Islamic thinkers thinking of themselves, though some more recent Muslim thinkers have studied the Marxists and the fascists. No Imam in Iran or Egypt, however, suddenly wakes up in the middle of the night and shouts, "That's it! I am an Islamo-fascist; why did I not think of that before?" No pious youth in Mecca reads the Collected Works of Benito Mussolini and muses to himself, "Yes, this is what Mohammed was about in the Koran."

Rather the term comes from Western politicians and writers. They are desperately seeking a word or expression that they can use, one that avoids suggesting that the war in fact has religious roots, as the people who are doing the attacking claim it does. To say that war has "religious" roots violates a code, a constitutional principle. Wars are political not religious. Therefore, their explanation must be political, must arise from modern political science. Hobbes, "where are you when we need you?" Religion cannot be a serious motivation, especially over the centuries. We must look elsewhere. Only social "science" can explain this phenomenon.

"Fascism," in this context, thus becomes a handy term. We thought that we were rid of that menace after World War II, of course. Compared to Marxism and Nazism, it was, in fact, the mildest of the ideologies of our recent time. Many of its features, originally designed for other situations, can appear to apply to what is going on in our "terrorist"-infected world. This happy analytic result, it is said, justifies us in joining "Islam" and "fascism" together in a way that apparently absolves most of Islam of anything to do with the problem or any responsibility for Muslims doing anything about it. At the same time, it demonstrates the usefulness of western political science in understanding modern movements. If science cannot understand something, it cannot be understood, goes the accepted wisdom.


If for no other reason than the sake of clarity, let us think our way further through this murky issue of what to call what we are dealing with. We have to call it something because it is something. It will not "go away" peacefully any time soon. Aristotle indicated that the first issue in political things is to describe accurately the nature of a regime under scrutiny. What exactly is it? This seemingly simple explanatory effort can itself be quite dangerous, quite personally dangerous, as Muslims who question their own roots soon find out. Many powerful, even many weak, governments do not like to be called what they scientifically are. Moreover, a distinction can be found between what some political thing is and what we are allowed to call it because of our own philosophical or political positions. The political control of language, as George Orwell suggested, is itself an instrument of tyranny. Moreover, such a thing as political philosophy exists even apart from any actual regime and what it allows us to call it.

We should by now be used to totalitarian regimes insisting on calling themselves "republics" or "democracies" and punishing anyone who refuses to accept a government's own definition of itself. Today, the accurate use of language, apparently something guaranteed in our amendments, is a minefield. We have something like "hate crimes" whose effect is in fact to prevent us from naming exactly what we are dealing with. Philosophy in these circumstances is driven underground. The phenomenon of philosophy being driven underground was, as Leo Strauss once remarked, a major issue within medieval Islamic philosophy.


III.   The Washington Times recently (August 12, 2006) published a useful and insightful editorial,
"It's Fascism," that I will use to comment on this nomenclature. First, the editorial points out the gradual change in President Bush's designation of the enemy. He, with Mr. Blair, began using the word "terrorist," but more recently he has used the designation "fascist." "Is this a legitimate use?" the editorial asks. Fascism, it continues, is a "political philosophy" that exalts a group or nation over the individual. It could also imply a religion. Fascism promoted central rule, subordinated individuals to "political leadership." The term thus can legitimately be used to designate those responsible for the recent "terrorist" understandings of themselves.

The editorial identifies groups like "al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas" and other organizations as "fascist," that is, they operate in effect on these principles. "Non-Muslims" are regarded as "a lesser breed of expendable or contemptible dhimmis and infidels." Social and economic restrictions are placed on every group that does not conform to the ruling power. The editorial says, "this is not mainstream Islam.... It is a corruption of the faith."

Evidently, The Washington Times was among the first to use the designation "Islamofascism." It was related to a German-born Muslim scholar, Kalid Duran, in an interview about his book, An Introduction to Islam for Jews, in The Washington Times. In spite of Muslim organization protests, the editorial maintained that its use of the term was simply an accurate description of what, with proper distinctions, these people did. "Islamofascism speaks for itself. It is a real phenomenon." It is not illegal, immoral, or even impolite to call it what, judging from its actions, it is.

The question I ask, in the light of this case for the use of the term "Islamofascism," is this: does this term clarify or obscure the issue? Let me propose a thought process. Recently, a friend told me of reading a report from London about how one of the "terrorists" designated to blow up a transatlantic flight was to be accompanied by his wife and child. The explosive was to be in the baby's bottle. The man was willing to blow up himself, his wife, and his young child in the cause for which these ten or so planes were to be destroyed by similar methods.

Now this proposal, in itself, strikes us as simply horrendous, insane, mad. Moreover, let us suppose that the plot was not detected and was successful. Within the course of several hours, analogous to the relative success of 9/11, ten planes with a total of, say, two or three thousand passengers flying from London to New York had been destroyed. What would the reaction of this news been in Tehran or Cairo or other Muslim capitals? I would like to be wrong on this, but judging from previous instances, I greatly fear that, in too many cases, there would have been cheering, not horror. This heinous act would have been interpreted -- not by all but by many -- as a stunning success and a blow at the great Satan. We would probably have heard from the President of Iran or Osama ben Laden himself or someone of that level that more was in store, that the final day of reckoning is nearer.

What do these speculations have to do with the term "Islamofascism?" When 9/11 first happened, I recall commenting on this very issue, this time in the case of the young men who plotted, planned, and carried out the destruction of the World Trade Center. What, in their own minds, did they think they were doing? Did they think they were executing an "Islamofascist" plot? Hardly. Did they think they were in it for money? Surely not. They were in it for the glory that comes from what they saw to be the "brave" act of destroying the symbol of the great emery, his communication center. This act would go down in sacred history as the first step. Other successes would surely follow.

What was in it for them? Exactly what their religion said was in it. They were doing the work of Allah. The world could not know peace until it was subjugated to his rule as laid down in the holy book. The advance had been stymied for hundreds of years, set back, but now a new, glorious opportunity arose. Young men, willing to die, flocked to the cause. There is a sense of purpose, the reestablishment of the Caliphate, the subjugation and elimination of the enemies, the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, the Chinese. Not all would be eliminated, of course. It is a religion of peace. All would be "converted," except perhaps for a few insignificant ones. This is why Islam is in the world.

But, one might protest, are there no rules about means? And Islam is said to want to achieve these world goals "peacefully." My only point in following this question of the use of the word "Islamofascism" is that it does not describe what these men think they are doing. Nor does it help that some thus far ineffective Muslim apologists do not think that the term describes what the religion means. It is what these men think and evidently practice. What has to take place, in response, is some more adequate confrontation with the incoherence of this claim to world-subjection to Allah as an inner-worldly political mission powered by a quasi-mystical devotion to its cause. In this sense, in the minds of the ones carrying out the attacks, it is religious, not ideological, in origin.

A somewhat bewildered American President and British Prime Minister have understood, whereas many politicians have not, that there is a real war and a real enemy. They have been prudent in their use of language, catering to differing usages both in western democracies and in the Muslim world. Their general approach has been to seek to isolate the "terrorists" from the rest of the Muslim world. This world itself has been caught up for centuries in a stagnant and almost totally controlled system usually under the power of a military that has served to sit on top of those religious radicals who would tear up the world. What the President thus has sought to do is finally to allow and encourage what he considers to be the great majority of Muslim citizens to be able to participate in a culture that is not dominated by such motives that burst forth frequently from within Islam to employ terror.

Just as The Washington Times proposes "Islamofascism" to describe what these missionary groups do to further their cause, so the President proposes "democracy" as the alternative way of life that would both mitigate the fanaticism and allow the majority to escape into their own self-ruling states. One drawback of this solution is often the internal moral condition of the democracies themselves. The "terrorists" never tire of pointing to this inner corruption that often manifests itself within our own souls. So there is a kind of war on two fronts that comes forth from thinking about "Islamofascism" -- that envisioned by the "terrorists" themselves and that of the alternative they see in us which justifies, in their own minds, their violent ways.

Words, I am sure, have to be themselves used "wisely." It is not always easy to describe or hear what we actually are. The root causes of "suicide bombers" and the attacks of the "terrorists" are not primarily in western political philosophy. The "suicide bombers," while they sometimes learn to use sophisticated weapons, have shown the folly of much discussion about nuclear weapons -- the weapons are not the problem, but who has them. Moreover, as 9/11 showed, modern civilization is so complex than even the simplest acts like flying a plane into a building are as lethal as anything we can conceive. No one doubts, however, that these "terrorists" would use more sophisticated means if they could manage it.

In the meantime, one or two potential terrorists have made everyone of us take our shoes off or empty our bottles before we fly anywhere in the world. The cost of their even trying unsuccessfully to blow us up is itself astronomical. The first question remains, not "How do we protect themselves from their threats?" We must ask that, of course. But the first question has to be, "Why in the first place do they still want to threaten and, yes, conquer us?" I suspect we cannot answer this latter question primarily for reasons within our own political philosophy.



Fr. James V. Schall, S.J., is Professor of Political Philosophy at Georgetown University.

He is the author of numerous books on social issues, spirituality, culture, and literature including Another Sort of Learning, Idylls and Rambles, On the Unseriousness of Human Affairs: Teaching, Writing, Playing, Believing, Lecturing, Philosophizing, Singing, Dancing, and A Student's Guide to Liberal Learning
.

------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------
I want you to notice that every single word that Bush says it may originaly came from this ( george town university and most probably from ( fr james schall)

 

Let me give you also some information about george town university and the American gov

 

 

February 8, 2005
Fr. James Schall Explains Liberal Learning at Christendom College

Fr. James SchallRenowned professor and author Fr. James V. Schall, S.J., delivered a lecture entitled "Liberal Learning"on February 7 at Christendom College as part of the College's Major Speakers Program.

Fr. Schall, a member of the California Province of the Society of Jesus and a professor of political theory at Georgetown University, began his lecture by explaining what is "liberal" about liberal learning or liberal education.



Edited by Shery
�� ���� ����� ����� �� ���� ����� ��������� �����

�� ����� ������� �� �����

��� ���� �� ����� ��� ����� �������

����� ��� ������ ����� �� ���� �������

����� ������ � ���� ������� ����
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.