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Pope Benedict�s Remarks
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Saint_Michael View Drop Down
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Points: 13 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saint_Michael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 9:29am
Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

Originally posted by Saint_Michael Saint_Michael wrote:

Muslims can be reasonable and not call for killing because someone said somethig they don't like?



wow really? who gave the fatwa to kill the pope? you mean the fake videos made in the basement of pentagon which work wonders in boosting the support for the war?

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/18508.html

 
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ak_m_f View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Saint_Michael Saint_Michael wrote:


Well I can apologize for the excesses during the Crusades (which the Catholic Church already has done).�



No need to apologize, the damage has been done

Quote
But from a human nature standpoint Islam waged war on Christian Europe.� The Crusades were a response.� Islam had already decimated the Eastern Churches, Islam conqured Spain and was on the borders of Austria.� However the Crusaders were not following Jesus example at all.




1095-1099
The First Crusade

1096
Kilij Arslan, sultan of Nicaea, crushes a crusaders invasion led by Peter the Hermit.

1098
The Crusaders take Edessa and then Antioch, and triumph over a Muslim rescue army commanded by Karbuqa, ruler of Mosul. The incident of cannibalism by the crusaders in Maarra.
"For three days they put people to the sword, killig more than a hundred thousand people and taking many prisoners." (Ibn al-Athir)
"In Maarra our troops boiled pagan adults in cooking pots; they impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled." (Radulph of Caen)

1099
Fall of Jerusalem, followed by massacres and plunder by the crusaders.
The population of the holy city was put to the sword, and the crusaders spent a week massacring Muslims. They killed more than seventy thousand people in Al-Aqsa Mosque. The Jews had gathered in their synagogue and the crusaders burned them alive. They also destroyed the monuments of saints, the mosque of Umar and the tomb of Abraham.


Does 1096 comes before 1905?

[/quote]

Quote

But you also can't deny that the crusades ended nearly 1,000 years ago, so they aren't relevant to the discussion of todays issues.


I also don't want to go off topic, plus it would be great if you can quote and respond to my statement in its entirety instead of half sentences taken out of context to derail the discussion, thanks.



The todays crusade is being carried out in the cover of deception, Todays crusades are being carried out in the name of freeom and democracy, In the end both have the same result : kill muslims & occupy their lands.

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'I'm driven with a mission from God".

President Bush.
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Saint_Michael View Drop Down
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"SPAIN UNDER THE MOORS
Neither was Spain under the Muslim Moors the jewel of Islamic tolerance that it is often purported to be. In AD 920 all the inhabitants of Muez were put to the sword. Cordova, Zarajoza and Merida were burned to the ground, with all adult males executed and all women and children enslaved. In AD 1066 all the Jews of Grenada were slaughtered. In AD 1126, all the Christians of Grenada were deported to Morocco.

In AD 1009, Kalif Hakem of Egypt ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulchre and all Christian places of worship in Jerusalem. Christians were persecuted cruelly and pilgrims were attacked.

CARNAGE IN CONSTANTINOPLE
Under Mehmet II the Turks conquered the great Byzantine capital, Constantinople. On 29 May, AD 1453, waves of Turkish soldiers swept into Constantinople, the greatest city in the world at that time, and put it to the sword. Priceless libraries and irreplaceable works of art were burned, the population slaughtered, even in the Hagia Sophia, the greatest Christian church in the world at that time.

For centuries the Turks demanded an annual �blood levy� of Christian boys. Parents were forced to hand over one out of every five Christian boys for service in the Sultan�s army as janissaries"

Every place you named was historically Christian, what were the Crusaders doing there in the fist place?  Trying to retake Christian lands.

Like I said, the Crusades were a reaction, Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land were routinely slaughtered, by marauding Muslims.  To say the Crusades only happened because of Christian aggression is baseless, Muslim aggression agaisnt Chrisitans was well in place by the time of the first Crusade.

As for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan well they were a response too.  I live in Brooklyn, I watched the towers get hit.

And anyway we are NOT a Christian nation, we live in a secualr world where religion is seperate.  If there is a national religion in the West it is secular humanism, or relativism.  Not Christianity.
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peacemaker View Drop Down
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Points: 3057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 10:25am
Originally posted by Saint_Michael Saint_Michael wrote:

"SPAIN UNDER THE MOORS
Neither was Spain under the Muslim Moors the jewel of Islamic tolerance that it is often purported to be. In AD 920 all the inhabitants of Muez were put to the sword. Cordova, Zarajoza and Merida were burned to the ground, with all adult males executed and all women and children enslaved. In AD 1066 all the Jews of Grenada were slaughtered. In AD 1126, all the Christians of Grenada were deported to Morocco.

In AD 1009, Kalif Hakem of Egypt ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulchre and all Christian places of worship in Jerusalem. Christians were persecuted cruelly and pilgrims were attacked.

CARNAGE IN CONSTANTINOPLE
Under Mehmet II the Turks conquered the great Byzantine capital, Constantinople. On 29 May, AD 1453, waves of Turkish soldiers swept into Constantinople, the greatest city in the world at that time, and put it to the sword. Priceless libraries and irreplaceable works of art were burned, the population slaughtered, even in the Hagia Sophia, the greatest Christian church in the world at that time.

For centuries the Turks demanded an annual �blood levy� of Christian boys. Parents were forced to hand over one out of every five Christian boys for service in the Sultan�s army as janissaries"

Every place you named was historically Christian, what were the Crusaders doing there in the fist place?  Trying to retake Christian lands.

Like I said, the Crusades were a reaction, Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land were routinely slaughtered, by marauding Muslims.  To say the Crusades only happened because of Christian aggression is baseless, Muslim aggression agaisnt Chrisitans was well in place by the time of the first Crusade.

As for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan well they were a response too.  I live in Brooklyn, I watched the towers get hit.

And anyway we are NOT a Christian nation, we live in a secualr world where religion is seperate.  If there is a national religion in the West it is secular humanism, or relativism.  Not Christianity.

Quote reliable sources to back up your claims. Comply with guidelines.

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Hanan View Drop Down
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.



Edited by Hanan
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peacemaker View Drop Down
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Points: 3057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2006 at 10:32am

Maryah:

Your post in the thread titled "Pope remarks reveal harder stance" and another post in that thread was moved in this thread to keep the topic at one place.

Peace
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Angela View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Angela: No, he's just the spiritual leader. He's not a representation of Christ or God.

The pope REPRESENTS his God on earth. He receives messages directly from his God. The priests then convey the messages to the parishioners who then apply them to their daily lives. As you know, the Catholic God doesn�t talk to the average, run-of-the-mill parishioner, he does it through pope and priest, for example during confession of sins, which can only be forgiven by pope or priest. The pope is much more than a spiritual leader.

Yes, I'm aware of this fact, which is why I'm no longer Russian Orthodox Christian.  I suppose your right he is more than a spiritual leader.  I was just afraid you though he was a physical representation of Jesus or God.  Representation and Representative are kinda two different ideals.  However, The Papal Authority is one of the reasons there was a Reformation and Protestant Movement.  It was also the cause of the Great Schism.
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fogtrik View Drop Down
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The pope doesn't talk to god, that only happens in movies and crazy people's heads? Its also not in is job description? Fog
Religion is a virus of the mind.
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