Female circumcision halal?

I agree with Jamal 100%.

Read what jamal baddawi wrote more carefully he doesnt actualy say this practice is haram [you may get that impression from the article i understand] he only says there is no basis for it to be widespread which arguably means nothing really as people are free to choose which authentic rulings they wish to follow.

We seem to forget two important issues. First, there is not total agreement on authenticity of all Hadiths among all Muslims.

this is a general statement and not relevant to this point as we are talking about the authenticity of one particular hadith on which you have to comment.

It is wrong to call another Muslim a Kafir simply because he doubts the authenticity of a particular Hadith.

This is correct as his doubting the authenticity for valid reasons is acceptable but who then called any person a kafir for doing this.

Alternately who proved this particular hadith is not authentic?

Second, even if the Hadith were authentic, the Prophet never claimed he was infallible.

In fact there are verses in the Quran attesting to his human fallibility. So, I too would have asked him to reconsider.

Authubillah, there is a clear distinction between making a mistake in choosing one path over another and making a mistake in Islamic rullings you would be committing Kufr to claim the second. Allah himself says in the Quran nothing he speaks is from his own desire and he is Guided to speak.

Abasa wa tawallah  is referring to two paths rasul allah had to choose from not an Islamic ruling in which Allah has Guaranteed his Infallibility on.

Allah testifies in the Quran that he delivered the message correctly, please be carefull with your words.

Since Rami refuses to deny that female "circumcision" is wrong let's see the list, oh and since this is a scientific fact this is not religiously biased. Before I commence I'm acknowledging that we are discussing not just the act initself but what defines this act. It is obvious that Rami has a problem with the terminology given to female circumcision as many have referred it as female mutilation (or female genital cutting) I would say the latter definition is more appropriate whereas the former may seem pejorative regardless because it is practiced widely by cultures it is not necessarily mandated by medical experts.

Also, female circumcision despite it being interpreted in Hadith as religious mandate has been practiced before/during/after the Prophet Muhmmad. So it would be nothing new to say that this is an acceptable practice. But this practice is not something that is biologically helpful to women note the following:

When we discuss female circumcision we are discussing clitoridectomy which is: the removal or splitting of the clitoral hood The clitoral hood is the female prepuce, which is homologous to the foreskin of the male (See online ref: http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?clitoridectomy)

Believe it or not there are two types of female circumcision: Excision and Fibulation.

Excision refers to the surgical removal of tissue (such as the prepuce and the clitoris) plus the partial or total removal of the labia minora, the inner lips of the female vulva (See online ref:http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=Excision) also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excision)

Of course the above type is associated with the Sunna tradition but the second type refers to the sewing together of the leftover labia minora epidermis, which contains sweat glands, a buildup of sweat and urine in the closed off space beneath this closed space can lead to urinary infection, septicemia, hemorrhaging and cyst formation which is of course cancerous (See ref:http://www.cirp.org/pages/female/dirie1/).

The other type is called infibulation which is extensive tissue removal of the external genitalia, including all of the labia minora and the inside of the labia majora, leaving a raw open wound. The labia majora are then held together using thorns or stitching and the girl's legs are tied together for two - six weeks, to prevent her from moving and allow the healing of the two sides of the vulva (See  ref: Pieters, Guy, M.D.; Albert B. Lowenfels, M.D., F.A.C.S. (April 1977). "Infibulation in the Horn of Africa" New York State Journal of Medicine 77 (6): 729-731). 

In addition Nothing remains of the normal anatomy of the genitalia, except for a wall of flesh from the pubis down to the anus except a small opening in the inferior portion of the vulva to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass through. Sounds awful? There is more. Female genital cutting is today mainly practiced in African countries. It is common in Senegal in West Africa to Somalia on the East coast, as well as from Egypt in the north to Tanzania. An estimated of more than 95% of all women have undergone this procedure. It is also practiced by some groups in the Arabian peninsula, especially among a minority (20%) in Yemen (See ref: Hedayat, Kamyar M.; Pirzadeh, Roya (October 2001). "Issues in Islamic Biomedical Ethics: A Primer for the Pediatrician". Pediatrics 108 (4): 965-971. Retrieved on 2006-10-02

There only reaons I could list that FGC can be justifiable is:

A) customary tradition in which female genital cutting is seen as a rite of passage from childhood to adulthood.

B) A cultural practice that sometimes has a religious identification (a female's honor is a reflection on her entire family, and believing it is God's will).

C) Social conformity

Of course the opinions of Muslims that support Female Genital Cutting are few and is not widely accepted by Muslims. Like I mentioned before Female Genital Cutting predates Islam but was also practiced during the time of the Prophet. The support by those Muslims who believe in Female Genital Cutting are those who believe in the mildest form of cutting which, of course many site the Hadith by the Prophet:

a woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. Muhammad said to her, 'Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband." Umm 'Atiyyah; Abu Dawud, al-Bayhaq. Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41: General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab).University of Southern California. Retrieved on 2007 March 27.

Many schools of thought which order the "slight trimming" of the hood of the clitoris do so in means of enhancing sexual pleasure. But most Muslims do no support Female Genital Cutting.

"Among practicing cultures, FGC is most commonly performed between the ages of four and eight, but can take place at any age from infancy to adolescence. Prohibition has led to FGC going underground, at times with people who have had no medical training performing the cutting without anesthetic, sterilization, or the use of proper medical instruments. The procedure, when performed without any anesthetic, can lead to death through shock from immense pain or excessive bleeding. The failure to use sterile medical instruments may lead to infections and the spread of disease, such as HIV, especially when the same instruments are used to perform procedures on multiple women." (See online ref: http://www.cirp.org/pages/female/dirie1/)

Other serious long term health effects are also common. These include urinary and reproductive tract infections, caused by obstructed flow of urine and menstrual blood, various forms of scarring and infertility. Of course there are other parts I'd like to add but I'd like for us to sit on this issue for now.

Rami,

It appears that ignorance is bliss and your post is riddled with it. Most Muslims and by most i'm not referring to the authorities of the madhabs do not practice female genital cutting. Again, this practice is mainly for the enhancement of sexual pleasure according to some of the schools of thought. And yes my mind differentiates between what the "Sunnah circumcision" states and what is stated by the medical community.

when I said FGC or Female Genital Cutting I was referring to three types which the third would be consider mutilation which is the removal of the external tissue of the clitoris as well as some of the internal tissue. I never said the Islamic practice was the third type if you read I mentioned that in Islamic practice, those that do practice it mainly do the "slight trimming" of the clitoris. Even if you cite the Hadith there is no explicit wording from the Prophet which states "Females must be circumcised." Only authoritarians do and most of the scholars in Islam are in disagreement over this issue. The issue regarding female circumcision is not even an Islamic practice when in fact it predates the Prophet so its not even an original practice. The act of female circumcision is purely cultural not religious. It is thought that female circumcision to have started in 163 B.C.E in Egypt which greeks had written about young girls in egypt who were circumcisied.

Here is the question if a young Muslim girl gets her clitoris slightly trimmed by a qualified Muslim how do we know that this Muslim is qualified? Obviously she cannot get it done in the States as well as other countries so where and who determines these qualifications? Even if the procedure is done according to the Sunnah does this muslim have knowledge regarding surgical procedures? There are many questions. Even if the surgery is low risk there is still risk!

I know you love to criticize me because I challenge authority because i find authority to be as fallible as those who follow authority. You however are blinded by your own zeal cannot possibly recognize the illogical nature of female genital cutting. When the prophet commented on the woman who was performing the circumcision he did so with the intention make sure the young girl was not being harmed and he made a comment based on what was acceptable at that time. Since the prophet was indeed human he was involved in his own culture at that time so I wouldn't expect any individual to be so isolated from their culture simply because they receive revelations from God.

Again I said nothing about Muslims cutting off the clitoris however they do trim the clitoris and that is a fact.