Islam and Buddhism

Sanjiv wrote: ................ You also mention something about intentions (I assuming you mean if you do something good and something bad happens or the result changes). Remember there is no distinction between humans and nature we are part of the large drama of reality .The kamma of nature won�t be just limited to itself but will effect other causes meaning and event that occurs can effect other events along the line. Our intentions maybe wholesome but unfortunately some other external causes are if you like heeding progress or changing the way we perform some action.

So I think, you mean the kamma is truely insulant about human (not to consider animals)  intentions and works through their actions only. Isn't it kind of not giving allowance for humanistic honest mistakes? For example if my action is that I take away my office calculator to home for some official work, and after completing the work, don't bring it back to office. In the meantime, if I meet death, then according to kamma I shall face the reaction of stealing the equipment. However, if my intention was not of stealing but through human error of forgetting the thing to return or simply too lazy to take it back, should I face the same Kamma?

Before I finish I�ll share a short story with a meaning. The story below was from a book of narratives not sure on the title of the book. My Uncle told me this one and I loved its meaning.

A young monk observing a snail crossing a footpath thinks to himself hmm this is no good he could get stepped on. Prudently the young monk walks over to pick it up too place it elsewhere where it will be safe. An older monk observing this walks up to him and says, �you just affected its kamma�. The younger monk replies �I�m only trying to place it in a safer spot�. Older Monk �the snail had its original intention let it continue on its path�. The younger monk heeding his advice places the snail back where he found it. To which the older monk then replied, �you did it again�.   In the above narrative the snail is the human being humbly carrying on with his deeds. The young monk represents the external kamma that is beyond our control could be natural could be something else. Never the less whether good or bad comes our way we should always strive to do our best and have wholesome intentions within our heart we should never retaliate in return.

I think this example does not elaborate what I intended to ask for concerning intentions, therefore repeated my question with an example above. However, I do see the act of natural calmities that you regard them as external Kamma. But then I really couldn't understand when you say "we should never retaliate in return". Retailation against what? against nature? This will be absured? Shouldn't we advance our knowledge to understand their orgin and then take measures to save ourselves if they ever occur again?

The Sources I mentioned Buddhism in a Nutshell and The Idiots guide to Buddhism are books AhmadJoyia. I have been searching the net itself and the sites seem only interested in selling incenses and mystical objects haven�t found a good site as of yet on the Tripika. Back with more later.

Oh, I see. Anyhow, I do see some sites which does provide some info about Buddhaism especially if you look at this http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/index.htm

and see if you recommend for people like me to get benefit out of it.

HEY AhmadJoyia whats going down clown. Thanks for the reply sorry post a bit long.

Slight mistake mate with (Kamma Citta Niy�ma) typed physical law for this description. Also Eastern philosophy I mean ancient Indian, Burmese and (Thailand, Cambodia and Laos then known as Siam or further India). The people of those times were highly philosophical even the Middle East. Gravity was well known to them but they did not know the root cause of gravity but the effects are evident. They offcourse didn�t postulate that gravity kept the Earth and other planetary objects in orbit but they were fascinated in Astronomy. I hear from the Golden ages of Islam that medicine schools around Bagdad postulated the existence of micro-organisms since germs seemed to spread from contact, medical wards were then kept apart.

Before I elaborate further I have some other useful words that may help describe Kamma. Keep in mind Kamma is not only associated with humans but aslo everything else.

Kamma = Action and result or Changes

Quote Ahmad Joyia

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What about intentions? If my intention is good but action got wrong or the vice versa, shall I still  meet with the reaction of my action and not with my intentions?

Aren't you contradicting your own position stated above and I quote "How is it moral to justify that if someone has a deformity that he/she has done something wrong he/she hasn�t it is just the unfortunate reality.

]

Kamma isn�t a divine spirit nor is it a hidden cosmic energy that adjudicates justice if we do something wrong it is just a term to generalise whatever event that occurs in nature it can be anything there will be a result. Even down to the tiniest living and non-living things there are events that conditions change. Say if a thought arises we might be compelled to act here�s a sobering example next time you feel hungry what exactly comes to your mind biscuits, ice-cream or vegemite without even knowing we get up go to the kitchen and pile ourselves this is cause and effect.

Back to people having a deformity the cause for that would be something obviously genetic or external environmental conditions this is what Buddhists mean if you come a across it by them saying (Dhamma or Dharma) meaning seeing the way things are or the way of nature.

The five categories of Kamma if you like is just a general way of saying that Kamma is everywhere and all around us (changes or cause and effect are occurring everywhere). If you feeling now�s the time to be unplugged I don�t blame you but I am no Morpheus.

The world is not static and changes don�t occur in steps it is rather a continuum for example youth to old age there is a lot of causes and effects in between the phases that will ultimately result in the last phase.

You also mention something about intentions (I assuming you mean if you do something good and something bad happens or the result changes). Remember there is no distinction between humans and nature we are part of the large drama of reality .The kamma of nature won�t be just limited to itself but will effect other causes meaning and event that occurs can effect other events along the line. Our intentions maybe wholesome but unfortunately some other external causes are if you like heeding progress or changing the way we perform some action.

Before I finish I�ll share a short story with a meaning. The story below was from a book of narratives not sure on the title of the book. My Uncle told me this one and I loved its meaning.

A young monk observing a snail crossing a footpath thinks to himself hmm this is no good he could get stepped on. Prudently the young monk walks over to pick it up too place it elsewhere where it will be safe. An older monk observing this walks up to him and says, �you just affected its kamma�.

The younger monk replies �I�m only trying to place it in a safer spot�.

Older Monk �the snail had its original intention let it continue on its path�.

The younger monk heeding his advice places the snail back where he found it.

To which the older monk then replied, �you did it again�.

In the above narrative the snail is the human being humbly carrying on with his deeds. The young monk represents the external kamma that is beyond our control could be natural could be something else. Never the less whether good or bad comes our way we should always strive to do our best and have wholesome intentions within our heart we should never retaliate in return.

The Sources I mentioned Buddhism in a Nutshell and The Idiots guide to Buddhism are books AhmadJoyia. I have been searching the net itself and the sites seem only interested in selling incenses and mystical objects haven�t found a good site as of yet on the Tripika. Back with more later.

Hi everyone sorry for interrupting. First of all your knowledge about different faiths is quite diverse Fuhad your indeed a humble Muslim which I feel is the real Islam. As for me technically I am Buddhist having been born to Sri Lankan parents myself. But names don�t matter I would be just as happy to be labelled a Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, just another longwinded way of saying I follow anything that emanates good.I have been fortunate to be brought up in a culturally diverse environment. I learnt most of my Islam in 2002 from a Catholic High School, which may seem strange. However I believe it was most needed as prejudice about the faith was spreading rapidly after Sept11.

Back to the topic the best place to start I guess is to explain the Law of Moral Causation (Kamma or Karma). (Karma meaning cause and effect)

People may express different opinions on the matter but my advice know both sides of the argument then using your rationale, think what you see fit.

What is Kamma, well it doesn�t mean good or bad. It is the direct effect or result after some action. It is genuinely believed by some not all that it means if someone endures terrible suffering during life that he/she has done something wrong not so. How is it moral to justify that if someone has a deformity that he/she has done something wrong he/she hasn�t it is just the unfortunate reality. This begs other arguments how is one person born so rich yet another so poor, how is one born in a society of peace and another in a state of war, how is one born to be happy and another so unhappy another kind and another wicked the comparison is endless. Well all this is simply due to past events.

Consider the horrible boxing day Tsunami is it the 250 000 people who died who invited this no. If we go back in time the first cause would have been the disturbance of the mantle the effect shifting of tectonic plates. The shifting becomes the cause effect becomes the dreadful Tsunami. The Tsunami becomes the cause and the effect becomes the destruction of so many lives. Yet it is surprising some people would think that they did something wrong or it is a sign from God it is simply the reality we are after all a part of nature that lives breathes, eats like other plants and animals.

There are five categories of Kamma according to Buddhism and Eastern philosophy.

Kamma Niy�ma: Order of act and result, eg desirable and undesirable acts produce corresponding good and bad results respectively.

Kamma Utu Niy�ma: Physical (inorganic) order, eg seasonal phenomena of winds and rains.

Kamma Bija Niy�ma: Order of germs or seeds (physical organic order) eg rice produced from rice-seed, sugary taste from sugar canes. The Scientific theory of cells and genes and physical similarity of twins may be categorized in this order.

Kamma Citta Niy�ma: Order of mind or psychic law eg processes of consciousness (Citta Vithi), power of mind etc.

Kamma Dhamma Niy�ma: Order of the norm or the natural phenomena eg gravity, light, sound etc.

Hope this helps above sources from Buddhism in a Nutshell and The Idiots Guide to Buddhism.

Salaam To:Ummziba and Anne

Ummziba thanks for your clarification.

Anne

I would urge you to expound on the comments made by Ummziba and also to elaborate on the concepts of messiah and prophets when comparing it with Buddhism.

How do you feel being a messiah or prophet from a Buddhist perspective, because Buddha did said that an individual can attain nirvana through self -effort.

Regards

Fuhad