Interracial relationships

Wa alaikum Salaam,

Let me first say that it takes a lot of patience and understanding here on this website even though this is a website and none of us has seen each other just by the very fact that we can have a somewhat civil discussion is miraculous. What upsets me on this website is when people take my words out of context and use them for their own illogical assertions. Let me first address to Mishmish illogical assrtion.

Sister with all due respect let me say that what you posted about what I say in conjuction to us "brothers reflecting the very prejudices of our Ummah" is not only unwarranted but totally wrong. Mishmish if you asked sister Ummziba all of my post reflect the realism of society and how we as individuals, not as an Ummah must change it. Before we can change our social infrastructure we must individually change ourselves. I neevr said specifically that all cultures in Islam are against reverts I don't know where you got that crap from, because it is what it is crap!

It appears I can't be sympathetic to people here because I highly dislike it when people just brisk through  what I read and assert things that I totally did not say. Secondly Candor is obviously an ignorant Muslim hands down. I use the word ignorant because obviously for any Muslim to allocate a specific cultures qualities with those who revert to their primordial faith is obviously ignorant of the true spirituality of Islam. Most of those who respond here are absent of the ole philosophical subject: logic.

My whole point here was not to post some complaining on why this is this, and why that is that. My whole point here was to discuss the reality of our world and how ignorance parades through our community unknown. This subject has nothing to do with reverts and non-reverts. This has something to do with our own socialogical dysfunctions and how we should combat it. True we are all entitled to our opinion but what we must do prior to stating our opinions is "GET ALL THE FACTS" sister Mishmish disappointing that you overlooked all that I said and the only thing you can state about anything what I said was something totally different. Perhaps you are carrying over comments in the women's section. Actually I haven't even gone back to that subject because I chose not to continue the discussion perhaps you are carrying what you said to here I don't know just making an assertion like you did here.

Some of you may look at my age and say I haven't even known 1/3 of life yet but living in a country which of course was not by choice, you learn a few things. Living in Islam you obviously learn more things and practicing it, you learn a lot! On this subject here (which I like to bring everyone back to) its knwon here that racism is not the very top of our discussion. The only thing I can say I admire about the Nation of Islam is that it discusses racism on a real level. Although I don't agree with their inital philosophy on spirituality I agree that racism starts with human beings (of course they have their own brand where racism start but I only took what they implied).

Racism in culture starts with the individual and until we change the individual and our perspective on life only then we can notice any differences within our community. Sometimes it takes the "out of the box" approach by us to do that. Look at Rosa Parks. Not too many Muslims here give her her due but if we can take anything in our time from that individual we can say that she went above and beyond off one simple act. It took a woman, an African-American woman to say "no!" in defiance of the law to change history and that she did. Of course there are others to mention but point being here is that it starts with us.

We Muslims here complain about the war in Iraq, Iran, Syria and any country with a high Arab population but what about Sudan? Ethiopia? Malaysia? We have problems in other areas yet we focus on Arab states. We focus on Pakistan yet we dont focus on Muslim women being raped by Arab militas. Hmmm I see a pattern here. Not point figers at cultures but I'm saying that there is a pattern of where our priorities are as a community. We can talk about Bush all day long but the thing is until we equip ourselves with knowledge and of true Islamic principles only then we can acheive that enlightenment where our society changes. As for Candor and Muslims like him they will always win so long as we Muslims keep looking elsewhere......Yes I have a lot to say here because I'm sick of Muslims picking each other apart rather than supporting...I take this approach because I'm sick of people overlooking all what I say and only using parts of what I say. I write a lot so why dont you read!!!

Israfil wrote: We Muslims here complain about the war in Iraq, Iran, Syria and any country with a high Arab population but what about Sudan? Ethiopia? Malaysia? We have problems in other areas yet we focus on Arab states. We focus on Pakistan yet we dont focus on Muslim women being raped by Arab militas. Hmmm I see a pattern here. Not point figers at cultures but I'm saying that there is a pattern of where our priorities are as a community. We can talk about Bush all day long but the thing is until we equip ourselves with knowledge and of true Islamic principles only then we can acheive that enlightenment where our society changes. As for Candor and Muslims like him they will always win so long as we Muslims keep looking elsewhere......Yes I have a lot to say here because I'm sick of Muslims picking each other apart rather than supporting...I take this approach because I'm sick of people overlooking all what I say and only using parts of what I say. I write a lot so why dont you read!!!

Assalamu Alaikum Brother:

I did read what you wrote. Have you read what you wrote? You say that you are sick of Muslims picking each other apart, yet you spent the entire paragraph doing just that.

I am not sure what the point of your posts are. You make very sweeping statements and generalisations, yet when someone questions these or answers you with a different opinion you become upset. Are you wanting someone to agree with you that there is prejudice? I agree, there is prejudice. But not everyone is prejudiced and not everyone has shared your experiences.

Assalamu Alaikum Brother:

Let me clarify what I stated in a logical manner so that you might better understand what I meant.

1. You stated: "In regards to choosing a mate a lot of cultures mostly Eastern and South asian culture tend to instill this cultural endogamy upon their children."   In this statement you are specifically mentioning a group of people: Eastern and South Asian, and stating that they perform a specific task: instill this cultural endogamy upon their children. By choosing this specific group of people to make this statement about, you are in effect stereotyping Eastern and South Asians. Stereotyping by it's very nature is prejudicial: Muslims are terrorists, Arabs are oppressors of women, Eastern and South Asians are exclusive of other cultures... etc... thus my statement that you are doing the very thing about which you are complaining.

2. You stated: Yes I have a lot to say here because I'm sick of Muslims picking each other apart rather than supporting...  By picking each other apart the assumption is: they are harsh, they are judgemental, they point out each others shortcomings and faults, etc.... Yet, here is the content of the paragraph in which you wrote this statement:

We Muslims here complain about the war in Iraq, Iran, Syria and any country with a high Arab population but what about Sudan? Ethiopia? Malaysia? In this sentence you are inferring that Muslims do not care about countries where the population is not Arab.

We have problems in other areas yet we focus on Arab states. The same as above.

We focus on Pakistan yet we dont focus on Muslim women being raped by Arab militas. In this sentence you are inferring that Muslims find the problems of Pakistan of more importance than that of the Muslim women being raped, I am assuming in Sudan.

Hmmm I see a pattern here. The pattern being that Muslims care only for certain cultures within the Islamic Community?

Not point figers at cultures but I'm saying that there is a pattern of where our priorities are as a community. Here, by stating that you do not wish to point fingers at cultures you are doing just that, then infer that the priorities of the Community lie only within certain cultures.

We can talk about Bush all day long but the thing is until we equip ourselves with knowledge and of true Islamic principles only then we can acheive that enlightenment where our society changes. Here you are inferring that the Muslim Community in general is not knowledgeable of true Islamic principles, and spends time in idle talk. 

As for Candor and Muslims like him they will always win so long as we Muslims keep looking elsewhere..... Here you name a specific person and group of Muslims that somehow fall short of the Muslim ideal.

In each of these sentences you have pointed out a  shortcoming, fault, or been judgemental of your fellow Muslims. In fact, when you state you are: sick of Muslims picking each other apart rather than supporting...   you are pointing out another fault of Muslims. Isn't this pointing out of faults, shortcomings, and actually naming of fellow Muslims picking them apart? Something that you state you are sick of other Muslims doing?

3. In response to my earlier post where I stated: But Brothers, you talk about the injustice of the Ummah today and the prejudices within it, yet your posts reflect these very prejudices. Israfil with his notions that other cultures in Islam are against reverts, and Candor with his weak Westerners remark. Both show the very thing that they are complaining against., you wrote: "I neevr said specifically that all cultures in Islam are against reverts I don't know where you got that crap from, because it is what it is crap!"      The tone in which you responded in this sentence and the language you used causes me to assume that you were upset/unhappy/offended at what I wrote. this is why I wrote that you were upset because I posted a different opinion.

4. You wrote: "True we are all entitled to our opinion but what we must do prior to stating our opinions is "GET ALL THE FACTS" sister Mishmish disappointing that you overlooked all that I said and the only thing you can state about anything what I said was something totally different."   I believe I have all of the facts as I am in fact using the words that you yourself wrote, copying them directly from your posts.  I have not overlooked anything, nor am I referring to any other forum on which you might have posted, but rather what you have written here.

Assalamu Alaikum Brother:

Exclusive: Singled out in preference: choice, chosen, elect, select. See choice, include

Not diffused or dispersed: concentrated, intensive, undivided, unswerving, whole. See collect, edge, part

I think sometimes people see what they want to see. I live in an area of the US which has a very large Muslim population. I would say that 98% of the married Western reverts are married to Muslims from Middle Eastern/Asian/South Asian countries. All of the American women reverts that I personally know have husbands from these countries. All of them, and it does not matter what race or ethnicity these Sisters are. Most of the American male reverts have wives from these cultures. A large number of the African American brothers have actually gone overseas to Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, etc, and returned with wives.

There are multi-cultural marriages everywhere within the Muslim population, just look around. I would venture to say that most of the married Western reverts who post here are married to someone from the Middle East or Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc...

As for your assertion that I will not get the point of your topic, you are correct. Not in that I don't understand your posts, however philosophically deep you might believe them to be, but rather I do not get your reason for posting this topic at all if you feel that no one here will understand the point and you argue with anyone who doesn't agree with you. You keep repeating that what you are saying is proven fact, so what is the point? If it is a proven fact, then why even bring the subject up. A fact is a fact and continually bringing it up will not change it.

If you feel that this proven fact is at odds with Islamic principles, then why not go out amongst the Ummah and work to change what you see as a serious problem? In fact, Islamically that is your duty. If you see an injustice, you should speak out against it.