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FAO: Fatima (Islam Questions)

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Rational Mind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rational Mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:11pm
I went to school today and my teacher said you're "evil" lol and she told me to eat chrips when I was fasting so I ate them.

She told me "tell her about these hadith" and she showmed me some hadith. She told me to post them to you...

Volume 3, Book 47, Number 765: Bukhari

Narrated Kurib:

the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."


She has freed her slave GIRL, but Mo says that she would have got MORE REWARD if she had given the slave girl to her uncles.

Why would that get her more reward?

The reward being that her sicko uncles could have used another slave girl fro some sex.

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 598:

Narrated Jabir: A man manumitted a slave and he had no other property than that, so the Prophet cancelled the manumission (and sold the slave for him). No'aim bin Al-Nahham bought the slave from him.


The man freed his slave, but Mohammed cancelled it and sold the slave instead.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 711:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

A man amongst us declared that his slave would be freed after his death. The Prophet called for that slave and sold him. The slave died the same year.


man promised to free his slave when he died, so Mohammed sold him instead, which in turn ensured that the slave would die as a SLAVE.

There is more, so much more. And those are from Bukhari so they are SAHIH.


(Her words)
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Rational Mind View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rational Mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:13pm
She is very convincing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote superme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2006 at 2:33pm

The rule is whenever there is a khadith in direct opposition with the Qur'anic injunction, the khadith statement is invalid. I am sure people from friends and foes know this rule. Those khadiths you used for these purpose are fall into this category, beside he adopted his own slave as a son. If he did the impossible in the face of ingrained culture toward slaves, therefore these kind of khadiths are rejected. The Qur'anic rule concernings slave started early from the Meccan era.

Originally posted by Rational Mind Rational Mind wrote:



There is more, so much more. And those are from Bukhari so they are SAHIH.

(Her words)

I have seen and read many of them, absurdities as well as contradictions, but my attitude in reading them is different. I don't have feeling of hatred when I am reading therefore my reading is academic by nature and to increase the benefits for spiritual purpose.

Btw, are they slaves in existance in the houses somewhere that need to be freed? The muslims have duty to free them if there are any.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rational Mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2006 at 8:52am
Originally posted by superme superme wrote:

The rule is whenever there is a khadith�in direct opposition with the Qur'anic injunction, the khadith statement is invalid. I am sure people from friends and foes know this rule. Those khadiths you used�for these purpose�are fall into this category, beside he adopted his own slave as a son. If he�did the impossible in the face of ingrained culture toward slaves, therefore these kind of khadiths are rejected. The Qur'anic rule concernings slave started early from the Meccan era.


Originally posted by Rational Mind Rational Mind wrote:

There is more, so much more. And those are from Bukhari so they are SAHIH. (Her words)


I have seen and read many of them, absurdities as well as contradictions,�but my attitude in reading them is different. I don't have feeling of hatred when I am reading therefore my reading is academic by nature and to increase the benefits for spiritual purpose.


Btw, are they slaves in existance in the houses somewhere that need to be freed? The muslims have duty to free them if there are any.



I will print this and show her. She told me to do this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rational Mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:30am
Originally posted by superme superme wrote:

The rule is whenever there is a khadith�in direct opposition with the Qur'anic injunction, the khadith statement is invalid. I am sure people from friends and foes know this rule. Those khadiths you used�for these purpose�are fall into this category, beside he adopted his own slave as a son. If he�did the impossible in the face of ingrained culture toward slaves, therefore these kind of khadiths are rejected. The Qur'anic rule concernings slave started early from the Meccan era.


Originally posted by Rational Mind Rational Mind wrote:

There is more, so much more. And those are from Bukhari so they are SAHIH. (Her words)


I have seen and read many of them, absurdities as well as contradictions,�but my attitude in reading them is different. I don't have feeling of hatred when I am reading therefore my reading is academic by nature and to increase the benefits for spiritual purpose.


Btw, are they slaves in existance in the houses somewhere that need to be freed? The muslims have duty to free them if there are any.



OK she emailed me she said:

Your stupid just proved my point.

none of the hadith that I showed about slavery contradict the quran.

The quran itself gives permission to have sex slaves, captives of war, called "Right hand possessions"

Please don't waste my time trying to bring this young boy into your cult!

(her words)
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2006 at 9:59am

Sounds like you have a real winner there Rational Mind.  Prejudice and closeminded people are something I cannot tolerate.

One of my favorite hadiths (and mind you I'm non Muslim) is one where Fatima asked her father for a slave to help with her domestic chores.  Muhammed entered her and Ali's tent after they had gone to bed and set down between them, propping his feet up on Ali's chest.  (This shows me his sense of humor.)  He then taught then that dhikr was better than having a slave and taught them. 

I love that hadith, because it shows that he really felt that prayer was more important than possessions.  It was also a good way of saying No. 

002.177
YUSUFALI: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.
PICKTHAL: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.
SHAKIR: It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rational Mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2006 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

Sounds like you have a real winner there Rational Mind.� Prejudice and closeminded people are something I cannot tolerate.


One of my favorite hadiths (and mind you I'm non Muslim) is one where Fatima asked her father for a slave to help with her domestic chores.� Muhammed entered her and Ali's tent after they had gone to bed and set down between them, propping his feet up on Ali's chest.� (This shows me his sense of humor.)� He then taught then that dhikr was better than having a slave and taught them.�


I love that hadith, because it shows that he really felt that prayer was more important than possessions.� It was also a good way of saying No.�


<A name=002.177>002.177</A> YUSUFALI: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. PICKTHAL: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing. SHAKIR: It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil).



That doesn't explain why Mohamed had slaves sold them and was getting 20% of the booty on raids he was getting slave girls which he could have sex with. She has a point I know what she is talking about I have read the Qu'ran you can have "right hand positions" those are slave girls you can have sex with them.
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Suleyman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suleyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2006 at 10:12am

Dear Rationalite Mandalito,

Please do not try to understand Hadiths with your moving type,first change and see the change...understanding Islam is more than Rationalite,it needs heart,respect,wisdom,6 senses,knowledge and more and more which you do not know...

Your Irrationalite Broderite,Suleyman....

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