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my mom wont let me marry him |
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UmmAminata 
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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 Posted: 12 November 2006 at 7:17am |
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Brother Israfil Don't leave this community! I know people say shocking and immature things but be the bigger person and flex the adab Allah has granted you with. I haven't done such a good job myself but in sha'Allah, I'm working there. Brother, your contribution to this discussion is was equally or even more important than the question it's self. Every one was talking about black men but not black came but you. Represent brother, your opinions do matter, and I'm not offended or angry with anything you said. Be aware that a young man or young woman could be reading your post and you could be effecting positive change, share your gifts brother. The brother who made those comments is a product of his upbringing, and nation. Thankfully, not every one thinks like that. Forgive him, he's sick and doesn't understand. It's hard to undue 18 years plus of socialization from parents who taught racism. I know it sounds like a run of the mill response but this is a test from Allah, and in sha'Allah -Allah intends all of us learn something before moving on to the next test.
Also, let's remember, marriage is a deeply personal and serious life decision. This is about choosing the parent of your children. That's really serious stuff so there is bound to be an array of opinions. Salaam brother |
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Mrs. Dia
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abuayisha
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Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 10:32am |
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It is not advisable to marry thinking that somehow you are making a social statement. You would not be the first to enter into an interracial marriage. This is not even a racial issue! I am sure that if you wanted to marry a man who weighted 350lbs your family would suggest that you not marry him. Are they against fat people? Should you marry the fat man anyway to prove to society that weight- based discrimination is wrong? I would not like my 19 year old son to marry a 40 year old woman. Is this prejudice based upon age? No. I simply believe that my son would have a much more successful marriage with younger women. Your family is concerned that you have a winning chance at marriage. If you are from a rich family, they would object to your wanting to marry a poor individual. If you were to one day obtain your PhD from the university and sought to marry the cute gardener; certainly they would suggest otherwise. After the honeymoon stage of any marriage the more a couple has in common the more likely they are to successfully deal with the second phase of marriage. This is the time after the honeymoon when we no longer say just sweet things to each other, when arguments and squabbles increase in frequency. It is at this time that our similarity, such as age, race, education, and values becomes important. Don't deceive yourself into thinking by going against your family�s wishes you are becoming a rebel or social activist through marriage to an African American. Marriage is about compatibility and not patronage, so make a wise choice.
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 12:40pm |
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It is not advisable to marry thinking that somehow you are making a social statement. You would not be the first to enter into an interracial marriage. - abuayisha I do not believe that this sister was implying that from that statement at all. I'm African American and if I felt that she was, I would have surely called her on it. That statement was a gesture of kindness, and cry for help from a young woman torn between what her fitrah knows is truth and what her family wants is not truth. After the honeymoon stage of any marriage the more a couple has in common the more likely they are to successfully deal with the second phase of marriage. This is the time after the honeymoon when we no longer say just sweet things to each other, when arguments and squabbles increase in frequency. It is at this time that our similarity, such as age, race, education, and values becomes important. -abuayisha I respectfully disagree and here is why:
From "Making Marriage Last", published by the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers at http://www.aaml.org/Marriage_Last/MarriageLastText.htm Why Marriages Fail Not all marriages fail for the same reason. Nor is there usually one reason for the breakdown of a particular marriage. Nevertheless, we hear some reasons more often than others. They are: Poor communication Financial problems A lack of commitment to the marriage A dramatic change in priorities Infidelity There are other causes we see a lot, but not quite as often as those listed above .They are: Failed expectations or unmet needs Addictions and substance abuse Physical, sexual or emotional abuse Lack of conflict resolution skills Also:
Current Statistics about Interracial Marriages, Families and Mixed-Race Children Results from Census 2000 Nearly 7 Million (2.4 percent) of Americans described themselves as multiracial in the 2000 Census. Among Americans younger than 18, for example, 4.2 percent were multiracial, compared with 1.9 percent of adults. Census officials claim that the number of interracial couples more than quadrupled between 1970 and 1995. Among the 13 states where the Census Bureau has released detailed race information so far, multiracial populations range from less than 1 percent in Mississippi to 4.5 percent in Oklahoma. Among big counties in those states, Fairfax and Prince William counties in Virginia were among the top 10 with their multiracial populations, about 4 percent. Additional Stats (Jet, Oct 6, 1997): Thirty years ago, only one in every 100 children born in the United States was of mixed race. Today that number is one in 19. In states like California and Washington it's closer to one in 10 (Newsweek, May 8, 2000). In 1997 Interface, a magazine which targets interracial couples conducted a poll, "Best & Worst Cities To Live," with its readers and found the top ten cities for interracial couples (ranked in order of preference):
Montclair, NJ San Jose, CA Denver, CO San Diego, CA Washington, DC Seattle, WA Minneapolis, MN Madison, MN Oakland, CA Columbus, OH Bibliography of Books and Organizations targeted at Interracial Families, Multiracial Children Books and Article for Adults and Professionals working with Interracial families and Mixed-Race Children: M.P.P. Root, ed., "The Multiracial Experience." Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage, 1996. M.P.P. Root, ed., "Racially Mixed People in America." Thousand Oaks: Sage, 1992 S. Van Collies, "How Does a White Man Raise a Black Son?" Essence Magazine 30, no.1 (1999): 70. Kaeser, Gigi, an Peggy Gillespie. "Of Many Colors: Portraits of Multiracial Families." Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 1997. Bender, D., and B. Leone, eds. "Interracial America: Opposing Viewpoints." San Diego, CA: Greenhouse, Press 1996. Wardle, Francis. "Children of Mixed Parentage: How can Professionals Respond?" Children Today. July-August 1989 v18 n4 p10(4) continued |
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 12:43pm |
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Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002: "The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
"Marriages are most susceptible to divorce in the early years of marriage. After 5 years, approximately10 % of marriages are expected to end in divorce - another 10 % (or 20 % cumulatively) are divorced by about the tenth year after marriage. However, the 30% level is not reached until about the 18th year after marriage while the 40% level is only approached by the 50th year after marriage." Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration ofMarriages and Divorces: 1996", U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Reports, February 2002, <http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p70-80.pdf> p. 18.
43% of first marriages end within 15 years. http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
And since there seems to be so much negativity concerning interracial marriages: What Are The Strengths of Interracial Families? By: Kelly N. Burrello DTG Senior Associate "Interracial marriage that works equals multiracial children at ease with their mixed identity, which equals more people to the world who can deal with diversity"
"Intermarriage and immigration are perhaps the best solution to this country's historic racial divide"
Most of the literature about interracial marriages and mixed race children is replete with narratives, facts, and figures about the challenges these individuals must overcome. The picture that is painted is often very grim. For example, the literature tells us that multiracial children catch a fare share of grief, and ugly slurs like "Oreo," "half-breed," and "mutt." Many biracial children are pressured by their peers to choose one race and stay with it. They might be encouraged to "hang black," "go white," "kick it Latino," or "roll Asian." In extreme cases, there are reports of mixed race children being slung into lockers, or beaten up in school bathrooms or parking lots because they do not conform to a single racial identity. The homes of interracial families have reportedly been targets of hate crimes by members of their communities who do not accept mixed race households. It is evident that egregious acts against biracial children, and interracial families is mainly based on the perception that race-mixing dilutes the purity of a single race, thus making the mixed race person somehow developmentally inferior to monorace individuals. Specifically, one study found that most people (specifically blacks and whites in the United States) believe that interracial families and multiracial children are a threat to the existing racial order (St. Jean, 1998). This perception may largely be derived from the history of race relations in the United States rather than any scientific proof that racially mixed people are inferior. Indeed, empirical studies have been unable to provide definitive proof that children with biracial backgrounds are developmentally inferior to monorace children. Secondly, there is no evidence to support claims that mixed race marriages and their offspring are a threat to society (Root, M. P. P., 1992).
phone: 703-478-9191 ◦ fax: 703-709-0591 692 Pine Street ◦ Herndon, VA 20170
Copyright � 2004 Diversity Training Group, Inc. |
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 1:04pm |
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Marriage is about compatibility and not patronage, so make a wise choice. -abuayisha According to your opinion, culture, and personal preferences it is, but not according to the Qur'an, and the life of the Prophet sws. Not according to reality which is conveyed in those stat's listed above. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that interracial, interfaith, or intercultural marriages are easy and a breez, they aren't- but so are most marriages.
your ethnicity won't help heal a broken marriage, and wounded heart.
your ethnicity won't pay the house note.
your ethnicity isn't going to cure or heal them.
your ethnicity won't help you cope, remain strong, and in control of the situation. If you or your spouse isn't praying, fasting, honoring your agreements, being honest, and acting with dignity Your ethnicity isn't going to perform the salah for you Marriage isn't about your compatiability. People do gain weight, people do age, people do loose jobs, homes, wealth, people do decide to not practice their culture, people do decide to not practice their religion- this universe is not statitic. People are not statitic. We either progress or regress. Most normal people gravitate between the two during a marriage. So if these things happen are you going to divorce because the person you married changed? We were created to worship Allah. Marriage for Muslim is not about compatability. Marriage for Muslims is about strengthening our relationship with Allah, enjoying the fruits of love and companionship according to sheria, and raising righteous children who will benefit this world instead of take away from it. Marriage isn't a cosmetic institution that you can shoot botox into if you don't like it. The bottom line is sustaining a marriage is about one's character, life skills, and about how connected you are to your Lord, and how much you fear him- that fear and love should be manifested in the way you care for your spouse, children, self, and other human beings in the world. Focusing on the race to the exclusion of other aspects of this young man is dehumanizing, unIslamic, and down right pathetic. I'm embarassed that people think this way and are teaching to other Muslims with no daleel what so ever. I've made my case. Salaam |
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 1:12pm |
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And from one parent to another: I have enough faith in Allah, and enough confidence in my skills, and abilities in rearing my child that I can trust that I raised her right. I don't need to project my personal insecurities, biases, onto my child. I'm better than that, and I sure in the heck know my child is better than that. I am not here for my self, I am here for YAL-Malik, I am not here to dominate others to their injury and than hide behind cultural or "hislam" I'm here for Yal-Quddus. I know that my purpose is greater than getting caught up in hype and spin- If my child or any subsquent children come to me wanting to marry another Muslim of another race, it's not a problem for me, because I trust that my child knows how to choose properly becuase I'm the one who raised her. If my daughter put her self in a poor situation I would not blame her entirely, for she learned how to think, choose, and decide from the one who gave her life. Muslim parents in America need to wake up and get a serious reality check before they push their own children out of this deen over st**id crap that won't matter when you're on your own death bed. At the end of the day, this young mans race doesn't matter. I believe in honoring your parents, I'd give anything to just kiss my mother's feet, but she's gone now, and I accept that. I hope and pray that my daughter will have enough guts to stand up to me and hold me accountable if I'm wrong- I'd be so proud of her. I'd be proud because I did what Allah told me to do. Salaam |
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Mrs. Dia
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 5:46pm |
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Salaam Mr. Abuayisha
Since you haven't challenged my comments publicly allow me to critque your response to the young lady. Can I offer you a different opinion? In the following (your comments are in blue you said: "It is not advisable to marry thinking that somehow you are making a social statement. You would not be the first to enter into an interracial marriage. This is not even a racial issue!" Mr. Abuayisha funny that you mention that because didn't the young lady say in the following: "my mother is saying i cant marry this brother because he is not arab." The young lady didn't disclose any other reasons for her mother's rejection of the young man, but simply saying that she was not accepting their possible marital relationship for ethnic reasons. Unless you have further information please make your comments clear on why you think her mother's reasons are not ethnic. Even if you are of Arab descent you shouldn't ASSume that her reasons are other than ethnic. That is trying to alleviate her mother responsibility of what was said. You further stated: "I would not like my 19 year old son to marry a 40 year old woman. Is this prejudice based upon age? No. I simply believe that my son would have a much more successful marriage with younger women." According to some sociologists your comments are very much prejudicial. When you say you "believe your son would have a more successful marriage with a younger woman" is a preconceived judgement, basing it on age (which you openly deny). If you disagree with me that your above comment in red was not prejudice feel free to look up the word prejudice and thank me later! LOL. If you use words such as "I feel" "I think" "I believe" those are judgements of emotion. You also said: "Your family is concerned that you have a winning chance at marriage." How do you know that? did she disclose that information in her original post? Or, are you assuming that based on your judgement as a person of Arab descent? How do you know this? Even if reflects within your own family you cannot possibly know their intentions unless you personally know them or she disclosed this information privately to you. You said: "if you are from a rich family, they would object to your wanting to marry a poor individual. If you were to one day obtain your PhD from the university and sought to marry the cute gardener; certainly they would suggest otherwise." According to Islamic criteria regarding marriage the above paragraph is not even aligned with Islamic thought regarding marriage. The sole basis of a rich Arab family wanting their son/daughter in marrying a woman/male who is rich is purely cultural not Islam. The only area in financialy security that is called into account is the man's ability to provide for the woman. But it doesn't say simply find out the status of a man's wealth income. For a rich Arab family a man who makes $50,000 is not enough. They perhaps, want an individual who's status is equal to that of theirs. Again what you're talking about is financial status which is usually attributed to cultural, not Islam. Also, about the gardner thing how do they know that the gardener isn't certified Academically? What if the gardener is running his father's company? you never know. I doubt those scenarios suffice in defense to your position. You said: "After the honeymoon stage of any marriage the more a couple has in common the more likely they are to successfully deal with the second phase of marriage." The above statement contradicts your original position. You basically mention that ethnic compatibility supercedes that of personal compatibility based on fallible information you provided. Now what is compatibility? Are you meaning what they have in common as individuals? A Black man and Arab woman may have millions of things in common. They, by sociological definition have the same culture per say. What I mean by culture I mean shared experieces. this young lady and young man go to the same school. That is their culture. they are students, that is another culture. They also are educated that is a culture as well. They perhaps share similar goals and dreams. They may possibly have much in common. what they may not share are the ethnic ties to culture such as song and dance and folklore, but hey they are both Muslim! that accounts for something because that is another culture! A culture far more greater than any ethnic culture on this planet. Islam is a culture in which God is the motivation and the goal and all things in life are done in accordance to the teachings God has provided for humans, to me that is the best of all cultures and something both this young man and woman share. You said: "This is the time after the honeymoon when we no longer say just sweet things to each other, when arguments and squabbles increase in frequency. It is at this time that our similarity, such as age, race, education, and values becomes important." Ok allow me to challenge this, wait, I already am so nevermind. So let me question the latter portion of your comment. What if age, education and values are in fact similar yet their race is not? Would one link our of that chain create a disastrous relationship? What takes more prescedence? Age, Race, Education or Values? I'm dying to "read" your response. In conclusion, you said: "Don't deceive yourself into thinking by going against your family�s wishes you are becoming a rebel or social activist through marriage to an African American. Marriage is about compatibility and not patronage, so make a wise choice." Funny if marriage is about compatibility why are there people who are of Arab descent that get divorces from their spouse? They share the same culture and perhaps share the same values so why? Marriage is not about compatibility marriage is about completing one's deen and to harness the ultimately "earthly" love between two human beings, both man and woman. If marriages work simply based on ethnic compatibility then divorces rates within racial groups wouldn't exist, or if they did exist it wouldn't be prevelant. The divorce rates that happen here are more so done by individuals of the same race. Perhaps there are some interracial divorces that do happen and perhaps some of the reasons are because of race but that is an individual's choice. If we Muslims are to advance our thought in the world we must not incorporate our ethnic culture to supercede that of the Muslim culture. Which culture takes more prescedence? Islamic culture, or our independent ethnic ties? If you choose the latter you are simply rejection the Last Sermon laid down by the prophet. If an educated Black Woman who is economically comfortable (but not rich or wealthy) wanted your son's hand in marriage would you reject her because of race? Oh by the way she is Muslimah as well. If you say yes solely on race then it is obvious you are one who thinks ethnic values supercede that of Islamic values. So please think carefully of your choice sir. |
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mariyah
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Joined: 29 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Posted: 13 November 2006 at 7:44pm |
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Asalaamu alaikum: To the brother who thought that it was not proper for his son to marry an older woman....Do you happen to remember that we are advised to follow the example of the Prophet (pbuh)? Wasn't his first marriage to an older woman and considered very successful? Thank you brother Peacemaker for the copy from the Last Sermon of the prophet. Ot is a timeless masterpiece. We need to recite it weekly at the Jummah gathering. A great Kutba, one of the greatest ever known. We need to practice it. My best friend in the Ummah is African American, in fact most of my friends are. I am a blue eyed mixture of caucasion american and Turk, so I have black hair, olive skin and sky blue eyes. When I first joined the masjid I was ignored because I looked american...which I am, Alhamdullilah for The African sisters and my african american sisters, I love them dearly. Let no one EVER harm them or their children, I can get REALLY mean! My husband is Latino muslim, another rarity..his best friends in the Ummah? Guess again! It seems that African American muslims are more accepting of those who may be different. I get the cold shoulders from the Arab and the Pakistani sisters,for the most part, that is fine. I will always greet them, if they do not return the greeting or just "blow me off" that is fine, they have to answer for it at the Last Day, we all do. Young sister, I am so sorry your mother is so hard-hearted about your possible marriage to this good brother. Maybe you should go to the page that has the sermon of the Last Prophet on this site and print it and leave it for your mother to read, evidently she has not read it. Find a wali and do what is best for you, make dua and follow the teachings of Allah. May he watch over you and allow the path that is best for you!
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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