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Full of Hopes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Full of Hopes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2009 at 12:13pm

  Yeh you did not say haram but some women mock the religion in this point and say they do not accept this part. I mean if a woman does not accept it, this has to be her private life and she has to have her reasonable reasons, but saying that it is not accepted in this general way is not allowed in Islam.

  Sisters, I am just giving a general advice do not worry if you are sure of your self and faith. I am addressing the people who do not agree. That is all.

  My point is accept everything form Allah and never argue, never say in general it is not fair or not accepted.

  That maybe clearer if I quite some of sisters comments here that show they just do not accept Allah judgment on this point. But I followed the way of prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, he was never direct in saying names of people who commit the mistake. He used to say, why does someone do this or that.

  That is why the general way is great for giving  an advice, if it is you or someone else she will get it and understand. I am sure that your hearts are full of faith and love to Allah but sometimes we need someone to remind us and then we remember and renew our Imaan. If I have any doubt of your faith, I would have never remind you. You are the best and I see you are all full of faith and respect to Allah, the greatest.  We are sisters do not forget. We remind each other and accept the advice form each other.

We are against mistakes not against people.


 Happy Eid to all of you..Heart




Edited by Full of Hopes - 23 September 2009 at 12:32pm
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2009 at 1:25pm
Full Of Hopes, Salaams,
I have never said polygany is wrong. It is how men go about it that is sometimes wrong. Women can be and are often hurt by the actions of their husbands regarding poygany. For example I gave the instance of a man who recently told me he would be separated from his wife for some time..(this is because their baby is very sick and needs medical attention abroad.) He has told his wife that whilst she is away he will take another wife because he can't live without sex for that time. Now personally I would have said his way of thinking is haram. He could choose to travel with his wife...there is no restrictions on that. Imagine how his current wife feels then? She is a revert, and has agreed for him to marry again. But actually does she have any choice? He also has a choice and can live without sex if he really wanted to.
 
Shasta's Aunt has also pointed out that khulla is not haram. If a woman cannot abide a situation in marraige then I see it as a blessing from Allah that she has a way out. Divorce is not to be taken lightly, neither is marriage, neither is polygany.However I believe that only a small portion of good muslim men marry more than one woman for the right reasons as was taught by our beloved Prophet(pbuH).
 
As Hayfa has pointed out polygany is only an option, not obligatory, or Muhammad(pbuH) would have said otherwise.  I doubt there are many sisters that will actually say polygany is wrong...only that it is not for them. That is a completely different issue.
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Full of Hopes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2009 at 4:16pm

   Wa Alaikum Asslam

  You are right, sister Martha. Many men are doing haram in this. I know stories that will make you cry. Many men are selfish. And this man is doing something wrong when he treated a new Muslims in such an such a bad way. He will be punished  if Allah did not forgive him but she also is rewarded.
  Also, if a woman can not handle it as you said there is the khula.

 Sisters, we have to be will educated about women rights in Islam. Allah did not make polygamy without conditions or rules. Just read about polygamy in Quraan and Sunna. There is a painful punishment for the man who is not keeping Allah rules in polygamy.
  Sisters I did not say, men must do it. Please do not misunderstand me.
I know how some men are not fair and are really think like animals of sex only. I know that but I am saying in the true Islam polygamy is accepted but with the condition of being fair with the wives.



Edited by Full of Hopes - 23 September 2009 at 4:20pm
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZEA  J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2009 at 1:28am
I agree with sister Hayfa...most men that I know, especially the religious onse, don't take a second wife for fear that they might not be able to treat them equally. My ex-husband marry his wife because all of his brothers have more than one wives, and so they always brag to him how wonderful and fun it is to have multiple wivse and so many children. But he claimed the reasons he took a second wife were because his mom forced him to and the fact that I did not want to have any more children until I finish school. I know that this divorce is going to be very difficult for my children, all of whom are under the age of 10, but I hope and  pray to Allah that everything goes smooth and easy for us.

Edited by ZEA J - 24 September 2009 at 1:42am
"You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you
spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2009 at 5:43am
Originally posted by ZEA J ZEA J wrote:

I agree with sister Hayfa...most men that I know, especially the religious onse, don't take a second wife for fear that they might not be able to treat them equally. My ex-husband marry his wife because all of his brothers have more than one wives, and so they always brag to him how wonderful and fun it is to have multiple wivse and so many children. But he claimed the reasons he took a second wife were because his mom forced him to and the fact that I did not want to have any more children until I finish school. I know that this divorce is going to be very difficult for my children, all of whom are under the age of 10, but I hope and  pray to Allah that everything goes smooth and easy for us.
 
Salaams Sister Zea,
I will pray for you. I know how hard it is faced with this situation. My husband took another wife after 3 years marriage back in Pakistan...he didn't tell me till he returned to the UK six months later. He also said his mom forced him to do so. As hard as I tried he was not prepared to see me through an adjustment process and was totally unIslamic about the whole thing. It was not the polygamy aspect I could not handle..it was his deceit with me. Many members here know my story. He also wanted his British passport which he needed me for. Life has not gone well for him since I stopped my support. BUt I am moving on with life and am contented to be on my own at this time.
I hope it will go smoothly for you and the children. Fortunately for me I had no children with my Pak husband...
I am certain you will come through this stronger...and insha'allah you will find another husband that is deserving of you. 
Peace sister. All will be well I am sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Full of Hopes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2009 at 6:45am

  Sister Martha, I can add nothing to you. You said everything I signed in to tell sister Zea J.
  May Allah support us and make it easy for us to obey Him.
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote www.islam.in.th Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2009 at 9:00pm
Islam's Position on Polygamy Written by Dr. Bilal Philips
Thursday, 06 July 2006
www.islam.in.th

Muslims are often accused of being promiscuous because polygamy is legal in Islam.
1.     Islam did not introduce polygamy. Unrestricted polygamy was practiced in most human societies throughout the world in every age. Islam regulated polygamy by limiting the number of wives and establishing responsibility in its practice.

2.     Monogamy of the West inherited from Greece and Rome where men were restricted by law to one wife but were free to have as many mistresses among the majority slave population as they wished. In the West today, most married men have extramarital relations with mistresses, girlfriends and prostitutes. Consequently the Western claim to monogamy is false.

3.     Monogamy illogical. If a man wishes to have a second wife whom he takes care of and whose children carry his name and he provides for he is considered a criminal, bigamist, who may be sentenced to years in jail. However, if he has numerous mistresses and illegitimate children his relation is considered legal.

4.     Men created polygamous because of a need in human society. There is normally a surplus of women in most human societies.1 The surplus is a result of men dying in wars, violent crimes and women outliving men.2 The upsurge in homosexuality further increases the problem. If systems do not cater to the need of surplus women it will result in corruption in society. Example, Germany after World War II, when suggestions to legalize polygamy were rejected by the Church. Resulting in the legalization of prostitution. German prostitutes are considered as workers like any other profession. They receive health benefits and pay taxes like any other citizen. Furthermore, the rate of marriage has been steadily declining as each succeeding generation finds the institution of marriage more and more irrelevant.

5.     Western anthropologists argue that polygamy is a genetic trait by which the strongest genes of the generation are passed on. Example, the lion king, the strongest of the pack, monopolizes the females thereby insuring that the next generation of lion cubs will be his offspring.

6.     Institutional polygamy prevents the spread of diseases like Herpes and AIDS. Such venereal diseases spread in promiscuous societies where extra-marital affairs abound.

7.     Polygamy protects the interests of women and children in society. Men, in Western society make the laws. They prefer to keep polygamy illegal because it absolves them of responsibility. Legalized polygamy would require them to spend on their additional wives and their offspring. Monogamy allows them to enjoy extra-marital affairs without economic consequence.

8.     Only a minority will practice polygamy in Muslim society. In spite of polygamy being legal in Muslim countries, only 10-15% of Muslims in these countries practice polygamy. Although the majority of men would like to have more than one wife, they cannot afford the expense of maintaining more than one family. Even those who are financially capable of looking after additional families are often reluctant due to the psychological burdens of handling more than one wife. The family problems and marital disputes are multiplied in plural marriages.

9.     Conditions have been added for polygamy in many Muslim countries. For example, in Egypt, the permission of the first wife must first be obtained. This and similar conditions are a result of colonial domination. No woman in her right mind will give her husband permission to take a second wife. Such a condition, in fact, negates the permission given by God in the Qur'an.

10.     Others have accepted polygamy on condition that it not be for �lust�. That is, if the wife is ill, or unable to bear children, or unable to fulfill the husband's sexual needs, etc., taking a second wife is acceptable. Otherwise it becomes �lust� on the husband's part and is consequently not acceptable. The reality is that �lust� was involved in the marriage of the first wife. Why is it acceptable in the case of the first and not the second? As has already been pointed out, men are polygamous by nature. To try to curb it by such conditions will only lead to corruption in society.

11.     Feminists may object to this male right by insisting that women should also be able to practice polygamy. However, a woman marrying four husbands would only increase the problem of surplus women. Furthermore, no child would accept his or her mother identifying the father by the �eeny meeny miney mo� method. The question which remains is, �If God is good and wishes good for His creatures, why did he legislate something which would be harmful to most women?� Divine legislation looks at the society as a whole seeking to maximize benefit. If a certain legislation benefits the majority of the society and causes some emotional harm to a minority, the general welfare of society is given precedence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sabran ya nafsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2009 at 1:03am
Assalamu alaykum to all of you,
 
I'm coming a little late to this discussion, but I hope you won't mind my putting my 2 cents worth in. First of all, I'm new here, and I usually don't register on forums, but after reading this post, I thought that I would comment. 
 
 Polygyny is definitely a contentious topic, and it is a topic that is discussed the muslim world over, by both men and women. Of course usually the men are for it, and the women are against it.
 
 Let's look at this in the historical context. At the time of the prophet , peace be upon him, polygyny and polyandry were practiced. Polygyny more so,but if you read the hadith of A'isha, may Allah be pleased with her, where she describes the  types of marriage practiced in pre-islamic times, it does show that polyandry was also practiced. When Islam came, it did away with that, and then regulated the practice of polygyny. It was very common for men to have many wives, in fact for a man to have only one wife was the exception. Many of the sahabah had more than four wives when they entered Islam, and the Prophet Mohammed, sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, would order them to choose 4 of them and divorce the rest. When Ghaylan ibn Salamah embraced Islam he had 10 wives. The Prophet, Sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, told him, "retain four of them and separate from the rest." Qays ibn al-Harith also said, "I embraced Islam while having eight wives. I came to the Prophet, sala Allahu alayhi wa salam and told him that and he said, "Choose four of them.". Omar ibn al-Khattab, radi Allahu anhu, also had many wives, and the Prophet, Sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, also told him to choose four, so Islam came and regulated this practice.
 
Many of the sahabiah would remarry many times if they were divorced, or if their husbands died. Asma' bint Umais was married many times. She was married to Ja'far ibn Abi Taleb, and bore him children, she was married by Abu Bakr AsSadiq after Jafar was martyred, and bore him at least one son,  and after Abu Bakr passed away, she was married by Ali ibn Abi Taleb,and bore him a child as well. Do you think that it was concievable that she was married to all of these different husbands as an only wife?. Abu Bakr, radi Allahu anhu, also had multiple wives, as Asma, and A'isha were from different mothers. 
 
Concerning the hadith that women always use to show that the prophet,Sala allahu alayhi wa salam did not like for Ali to marry another wife with Fatimah, this hadith is misunderstood and taken out of context. The reason that the Prophet, Sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, asked Ali to break off the engagement that he had made, was not because he didn't want Ali to marry again, it was because he had engaged the daughter of Abu Jahl.  The Prophet told Ali that the daughter of the prophet of Allah, and the daughter of the enemy of Allah could not be married to the same man at the same time. Then he said  Fatimah is a part of me, what hurts Fatimah hurts me. And Allahu alam. There is also another hadith that says that the Prophet, sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, gave Ali a piece of cloth and told him to divide it amongst the women of his household. If Fatimah was the only wife, who were the other women of his household? Possibly slaves? Yes, possibly , but we all know that men were allowed to have sexual relations with their slave girls, so wouldn't this also hurt Fatimah. And did the Prophet, sala Allahu  alyhi wa salam have a different standard for Fatimah than for the rest of the women? No he didn't, because we all know that he said, if Fatimah, bint Mohammed were to steal, I would have her hand cut off.
 
  What is my point with all of this? It's just to show that polygyny was the norm at that time. In fact polygyny in Islam is something that has been quite common up  until recent times.  As was stated in the post above monogamy is a western idea that has influenced Islam in the present time. When the Islamic countries were occupied by the European countries is when monogamy became more common. And of course why was this concept of monogamy introduced , but to weaken Islam. Fewer marriages= fewer children=fewer Muslims. And fewer marriages=increased vice, and weakened family structure. 
 
 Islamic society has suffered directly as a result of the increase of monogamy, There is an increase in the numbers of single women, never been married, widoed, and divorced.  Don't you think that many of these women would like to be married and have a man to take care of her even if she had to be a co-wife.
 
Now let's look at whether there is a need in present day society for polygyny. People will say that in the past there was greater need ,and that today women shouldn't have to put up with polygyny. Let's see what has really changed. People will say well, they used to marry widows to take care of them at times of war. I ask you, Are there now no wars going on in any land of Islam???????? We all know the answer to that one. People will say but it's not the custom any more, to that I will say see previous paragraph. People will say that men should be able to control their desires. To that I say, What are the men seeing out in the street every day. They are seeing women dressed very immodestly, to say the least.  Let's face it, Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, put a strong sexual drive into most men. To just tell people to control it without giving them an outlet doesn't work. If it did there wouldn't be all the cheating, and promiscuity that there is in the western world, and increasingly in the muslim world.
 
To the girl who said that she is afraid that she might marry a man who will want to get another wife, Yes you might, but you can't live your life worrying about what ifs. Not one of us knows what will happen to us tomorrow. We aren't 'alam al ghaib to see into the future. He might, he might not.
 
About putting a condition in the marriage contract that a husband can't marry another wife. I have heard scholars say, and have read in books , that even if a husband agrees to this condition in a contract it is not valid, and that he doesn't have to follow it, because the permission to marry more than one is given by Allah, ta'ala, so a woman doesn't have the right to make that a condition.  Whether it is acceptable to make divorce a condition if he marries another wife, I don't know about that.  What I do know is that the prophet gave a severe warning about women asking for divorce or khula. Khula is not actually divorce, it is more like annullment, and the husband has no right to take the wife back, because what she has done is essentially bought her freedom. Therefore a wife should think long and hard about asking for khula, because it can't be undone. There are no three khulas. It is irrevocable from the first. The iddah period is also not the same.  It is only one monthly period. The prophet, sala Allahu alayhi wa salam warned against it in this hadith: Thawban narrated that the Prophet, Sala Allahu alayhi wa salam said,For any woman who asks her husband for a divorce without anything wrong being done , the scent of Paradise will be forbidden for her". This hadith is sahih, recorded by Tirmidhi, Abu Dawood , and Ibn Majah. And he also narrated that the Prophet, sala Allahu alayhi wa salam, said " Those women who seek to pay for a divorce (from their husbands) are hypocrites." This hadith is also sahih, recorded by Tirmidhi . This information about khula was taken from "The concise presentation of the Fiqh"by Dr. Abdul-Azeem al Badawi. So this is a very strong warning to women.
 
And to those who say that she doesn't know what it feels like. Yes I do, I'm the first of three wives. It hurts, but life goes on and you get over it, but I didn't say it was easy.
 
 
Lastly I would like to recommend a book "From monogamy to Polygyny: A Way Through  by Umm AbduRahman Hirschfelder and Um Yasmeen Rahman    published by DarusSalam
 
 


Edited by Sabran ya nafsi - 21 October 2009 at 3:02am
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