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my mom wont let me marry him

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hakeema View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hakeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 5:54am

As-Salaam Alaikum,

I just wanted to sister angelino that I am a interracial relationship.  I just wanted to add my two cents.  First of all I want to say that just because you marry someone from the same background don't necessarily mean that you are compatible for that person.  Even though you come from the same culture or background people still have different taste.  My husband is from Pakistan, and I am African-American.  I have been married to him for four years, and we get along pretty good.  We have disagreements, in fact we had a disagreement last night.  It wasn't about culture, it was basically about me starting a online business through e-bay, and him just not agreeing with it.  Plus before we got engaged I prepared myself.  I knew that I was marrying someone from a different culture I basically learned how to make Pakistani food, and now I am a Pak-food addict.  I have no plans to go to a twelve program either.  Secondly, I don't tell him to forget about his Pakistani culture and he doesn't tell me to forget about mine.  I have Sari and Shalwar Kameez in my closet because I WANT THEM, AND I LIKE THEM.  He told me that he wanted a African outfit because he wanted one.  Secondly we go to African-American functions.  For example, every year he likes to go the Kwanzaa celebrations.  Everytime that time comes around he always wants to go.  We go to African World Festival every year in my state.  This past weekend we went to the KO-THI African Dance Concert, and he loved it.  He shared with me the similarities of the instruments and clothing that is found in his culture.  For example, the African men pants and Pakistani mens shalwar kameez pants looks similar.  Plus, I go to Pakistani functions.  Any functions that celebrate Pakistani cultures we always go to together.  anyway I will type more inshallah.  I have to get to work.  You was on my mind I had to type something fast.

Hakeema

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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 6:22am

Islam is a culture in which God is the motivation and the goal and all things in life are done in accordance to the teachings God has provided for humans, to me that is the best of all cultures and something both this young man and woman share.

Allahu Akbar

Thank you brother Peacemaker for the copy from the Last Sermon of the prophet. Ot is a timeless masterpiece. We need to recite it weekly at the Jummah gathering. A great Kutba, one of the greatest ever known. We need to practice it.

Allahu Akbar

Alhamdullilah for The African sisters and my african american sisters, I love them dearly. Let no one EVER harm them or their children, I can get REALLY mean!

-Ameen-

Maybe you should go to the page that has the sermon of the Last Prophet on this site and print it and leave it for your mother to read, evidently she has not read it.

It won't help, this is about the heart, not about the knowledge.

The United States Supreme Court desregated the schools with the Brown vs Board Of Education some fifty something years ago. If you research and read the Justice's briefs on that case, the justice's all were agreement that segregation is damaging to the psyche of all children, and stunts normal human growth and development.

Senator Barak Obama of Illinois in his book "The Audacity Of Hope" writes that when he sought to accomplish or work toward something that involved others she would always stop him and ask " and how do you think that makes them feel?" This belief his mother instilled in him of thinking of others welfare is one of the tools he uses in the Senate when voting for legislation that affects everybody.

Senator Barak Obama was recently on Oprah, I remeber him saying something to the extent of " The problem in our society is that people are form fame and fortune, they are into being thin or beautiful, you can have all that but are you useful?"

He then went on to say that Dr.Martin Luther King Jr said during one of his sermons " Every one wants fame and fortune, not every one can have that, but every one can be of service."

Race is an illusion, a myth that we created.

So I asked Brother abuayisha you may have compatiability but is your spouse useful? are they meaningful to you? are they a defining person in your life? Do they mean more than the cosmetics aspects of living? Are the worth more than their age, weight, race, income, and educational status? And how do you think it makes them feel to know they are worth more than that, and that those things are not why Allah created them?

Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 7:15am

Main Entry: mis�ce�ge�na�tion

Pronunciation: (")mi-"se-j&-'nA-sh&n, "mi-si-j&-'nA-

Function: noun

Etymology: irregular from Latin miscEre to mix + genus race -- more at MIX, KIN

: a mixture of races; especially : marriage, cohabitation, or sexual intercourse between a white person and a member of another race

Merriam Websters Dicitonary Online

The word miscegenation quickly entered the common language of the day and became a popular buzzword in political and social discourse. For a century, it was common for white segregationists to accuse abolitionists, and, later, advocates of equal rights for African Americans, of secretly plotting the destruction of the white race through miscegenation.

One important strategy intended to discourage the practice was the promulgation of the one-drop theory, which held that any person with so much as "one drop" of African "blood" must be regarded as completely "black". After World War II, white segregationists commonly accused the U.S. Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King, Jr., of being part of a communist plot funded by the Soviet Union to destroy the "white United States" through miscegenation

In 1965, Virginia trial court Judge Leon Bazile sentenced to jail an interethnic couple who had married in Washington, D.C., writing:

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.[1]

This decision was eventually overturned in 1967, 84 years after Pace v. Alabama, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously in Loving v. Virginia that

Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law.

Sometimes the individuals attempting to marry would not be held guilty of miscegenation itself, but felony charges of adultery or fornication would be brought against them instead; Vermont was the only state to never introduce such legislation.

continued...

 

Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 7:30am

 

Reliance Of The Traveller

A Classical Manual Of Islamic Sacred Law

Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller

pages 523-524 Marriage: A Suitable Match

m4.0-m4.5

KAFA'A

M4.1 Suitability concerns linegage, religiousness, profession, and being free of defects that permit annulling the marriage contract (def:m7) { N: As for color it is of no consideration in suitability.}

M4.2 The following are not suitable matches for one another:

(1) A non-Arab man for an Arab woman

" Allah has chosen the Arabs above others"

(2) Corrupt man for a virtuous woman

(3) A man of a lowly profession for the daughter of some one with a higher profession(A: an Islamic scholar is suitable for match for any level what so ever.)

(4) or some one with a defect that permits annulling the marriage (def:m7) for some one with out such defects

Being wealthy has nothing to do with suitability( O: for money comes and goes, and those with self-respect and intelligence do not take prinde in it), nor does being elderly.

m4:3 The marriage becomes invalid when ever a guardian marries he's charge to some one not suitable for her, if done with out both her acceptance and the acceptance of all who are eligible as guardians (def:m3:7) and are on the guardian level of relation to her(A: such as brothers) But if both parties agree, then the brides relavtives further than her marriage may not object.

m4:4 When the farther or farther's see that the best advantage is to be served by marrying a young boy to some one, they may do so, though they are not entitled to marry the child to some one with a physical defect that legally permits annulment to marriage.

m4:5 If a person is fool hardy (A) continously insane  but needs to marry, then his farther, grandarther or the Islamic magistrate may marry him to some one.  If they grant permission to the fool hardy person to marry him self, his marriage is valid, though if he does so with thier leave, it is invalid.

continued

Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 7:59am

(1) A non-Arab man for an Arab woman

" Allah has chosen the Arabs above others"

I mean no disrespect to Sheik Nuh but there is no daleel for this in this manual. There is no source such as Sahih Bukhari. I could not find this hadith in Sahih Bukhari nor could I find it the Muttwa of Imam Malik.

All three Imam's said that if anything they said contractdicted the Qur'an to reject it.

O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. [Koran, 49:13]

 

(3) A man of a lowly profession for the daughter of some one with a higher profession

Notice that wealth is not mentioned. The point here is education.

m4:3 The marriage becomes invalid when ever a guardian marries he's charge to some one not suitable for her, if done with out both her acceptance and the acceptance of all who are eligible as guardians (def:m3:7) and are on the guardian level of relation to her(A: such as brothers) But if both parties agree, then the brides relavtives further than her marriage may not object.

The sister has indicated that her farther is deceased. I don't know if she has adult brothers who would qualify as a wali for her. But in this sister's case, her Wali is gone. If her grandfarhter is deceased or is so old that he can't make choices even forhim self, her two qualified walee's are gone. If her brothers are not mature according to sheria, than she needs to go to the Islamic magistrate for a Walee which in her case may be a qualified Imam. Also, if her brothers agree to this marriage than  that may not be a problem, but it's always best to consult a scholar.

Okay, I've said all there is to say on this matter and this is too my last post. I'll just watch from here on out.

Salaam

Mrs. Dia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:07am

Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations.  We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man.  I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.  Our Prophet advised there is no superiority of white over black or black over white.  This does not mean that some do in fact feel that others are superior over themselves or that certain groups will not have inferior thoughts of themselves. 

 

I have found that �studies� state the obvious or are simply incorrect.  One study has found that interracial marriages fail at a higher rate.  That is my feeling. Another study has found that African American men marry outside their race higher than any other group.  Why is that?  Certainly that is a subject for another topic.

 

I am only prepared to believe that her family are honorable and have their daughters best interest in mind.  Why not start another discussion for race relations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:45am

Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations. We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man. I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.

 

Brother, please go back and re-read my very first reply this young woman. I'm the only one in this thread who pointed out that she had lost her farther, and need to seek professional help as well as support and make sure she is in her right mind. I advised her to not make any major decisions. The advice I gave her was professional and very appropriate. Please consult your local Grief counselor and I'm 100% sure they will back me up. I agree with your concerns about school 100% she should do that or finish first if she is able to.

 

I have found that "studies" state the obvious or are simply incorrect. One study has found that interracial marriages fail at a higher rate. That is my feeling. Another study has found that African American men marry outside their race higher than any other group. Why is that? Certainly that is a subject for another topic.

Wow! I didn't think you'd actually go there brother! But since you did...

I'm not a statisian so I can't debate the accuracy of actuaries with you. I'm going to address what you call a subject for another topic. I have to respectfully disagree with your position on that study about black men have the highest interracial marriages. The Census bureau states that inter-racial marriages with black men and the other are no more than I believe 10 to 20% a very low percentage. It may be even lower than that. Just becuase black American men choose to marry out side their race doesn't make them defected or untrustworthy nor does it mean black women are invaluable and unwanted. There are black American men who dislike black women due to cultural practices, certian mentalities, obesity, and the after affect of slavery and segregation. You speak in such a way as to imply like marrying an African American is not marry a human? The majority of black men marry white women or else because that is what they are honestly attracted to, and those black men who are upper middle class are in enviournments where black women may not be present. Example Republican Micheal Steel in Virginia. But I could also list Senator Barak Obama and His wife as an example of the same race marriage success story. You also need to understand that there are more women than men in most socieites, given that fact, many are free to choose spouses/mates/etc from a diverse picking so to speak they have more options.

 

I am only prepared to believe that her family are honorable and have their daughters best interest in mind. Why not start another discussion for race relations.

You're right we do need a new discussion! I have no doubt in my mind that her family loves her and cares about her, but I have to disagree that their current position is honerable in any way. They have dismissed another HUMAN BEING on the sole premise of the color of his skin. That is not honerable what so ever. Why can't you assume that this young man is also honerable? Is it because he's black?

Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UmmAminata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:51am

 

Our Prophet advised there is no superiority of white over black or black over white.  This does not mean that some do in fact feel that others are superior over themselves or that certain groups will not have inferior thoughts of themselves. 

Brother you are going to have to choose. You can't have it both ways. If you are trying to imply that black men have inferior thoughts of themselves and that is why they want spouses/mates from other races, than, you are very lost.

There are black Americans who feel inferior but where did that come from? It's not our fault.( I do not feel inferior at all)

There are White Christians who believe that black Americans convert to Islam on account of racism from the church. Some do and have. But to label all of us under that narrow view is to say that we don't have souls, that we don't care about salvation and a relationship with Yal-Aziz.

Like wise to imply this even if suttley is to say that black men don't carry about love, companionship, and procreation concerning marriage, when they do, and that is taken into account.

Black Americans have a culture just like white Americans and within that are sub cultures. Some Black American men may not be comfortable with THE CULTURE but it has nothing to do with THE COLOR OR RACE. Color and culture are two different things.

I myself don't like certian aspects of my culture!

See brother Isrifil, this is why I wanted you to stick around, because I knew it was going to hit here, I was just waiting for it.

Mrs. Dia
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