Under Invasion now

Patty wrote: Mishmish said: "Kinda tiring and sad, isn't it?" You betcha! God bless you, Mishmish!

Yes.  I am a Roman Catholic.  There are many verses in the Bible which refer to Mary's holiness and virginity (perpetual virginity).  I understand Protestantism too....my family is mixed with many Methodists and Baptists.  So I have good understanding of both, of the differences of opinions, etc. 

Jesus officially established HIS church here on earth when he gave the keys of the kingdom to Peter.  It was to be one church.  Catholic means "universal".....hence, we say in the Creed "one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  And we were until Martin Luther decided to break away over the selling of indulgences (which, of course was a sin), but he was a priest until then.  After that it just seemed that whenever an individual decided they disagreed with any doctrine or dogma, they just waddled off and started their own church with beliefs that "suited their tastes".  I think we can agree it is very difficult to live a Christian/Catholic life.  To REALLY live it.  But we do the very best we can.  We pray often everyday, we ask for repentence, we love God and "our neighbor as ourself", we forgive and turn the other cheek when we have been wronged.  These are not always easy things to do, but we have the Comforter to guide us and give us strength to carry on.

Even with our differences, Annie, I'm sure we agree on most issues.  We don't pray TO Mary and/or the saints.  We ask them to pray FOR us, or to intercede to the Father for us.  It's like calling up a prayer warrior here in town and asking him or her to "please pray for my Dad, he's very ill."  That's what we ask our Holy Mother of God and the saints to do.  The very same thing.  We do honor Mary, because she is very special.  She, out of all the women on earth, was chosen by God to be the mother of His son, our Lord Jesus Christ.  The Hail Mary, Ave Maria, comes from the Gospel of Luke. 

Anyway, I know we do agree on many important teachings.  I wish you happiness, great peace and joy in your life!

 

Hello Annie,

(You know how I hate "copy and paste" references, but I'll indulge you on this one).

Genesis 3:15

No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel (Proto-evangelium), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman: "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel" (Genesis 3:15). The translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically. The conqueror from the seed of the woman, who should crush the serpent's head, is Christ; the woman at enmity with the serpent is Mary. God puts enmity between her and Satan in the same manner and measure, as there is enmity between Christ and the seed of the serpent. Mary was ever to be in that exalted state of soul which the serpent had destroyed in man, i.e. in sanctifying grace. Only the continual union of Mary with grace explains sufficiently the enmity between her and Satan. The Proto-evangelium, therefore, in the original text contains a direct promise of the Redeemer, and in conjunction therewith the manifestation of the masterpiece of His Redemption, the perfect preservation of His virginal Mother from original sin.

Luke 1:28

The salutation of the angel Gabriel -- chaire kecharitomene, Hail, full of grace (Luke 1:28) indicates a unique abundance of grace, a supernatural, godlike state of soul, which finds its explanation only in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But the term kecharitomene (full of grace) serves only as an illustration, not as a proof of the dogma.

Other texts

From the texts Proverbs 8 and Ecclesiasticus 24 (which exalt the Wisdom of God and which in the liturgy are applied to Mary, the most beautiful work of God's Wisdom), or from the Canticle of Canticles (4:7, "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee"), no theological conclusion can be drawn. These passages, applied to the Mother of God, may be readily understood by those who know the privilege of Mary, but do not avail to prove the doctrine dogmatically, and are therefore omitted from the Constitution "Ineffabilis Deus". For the theologian it is a matter of conscience not to take an extreme position by applying to a creature texts which might imply the prerogatives of God.

These are just a couple of the bibilical references to our Holy Mother's holiness.  There is much more...it helps if you know Latin or Greek, Hebrew too.  But maybe this will be of some help.

God's Peace!

Patty wrote: Hello Annie, (You know how I hate "copy and paste" references, but I'll indulge you on this one). Genesis 3:15 No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture. But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel (Proto-evangelium), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman: "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel" (Genesis 3:15). The translation "she" of the Vulgate is interpretative; it originated after the fourth century, and cannot be defended critically. The conqueror from the seed of the woman, who should crush the serpent's head, is Christ; the woman at enmity with the serpent is Mary. God puts enmity between her and Satan in the same manner and measure, as there is enmity between Christ and the seed of the serpent. Mary was ever to be in that exalted state of soul which the serpent had destroyed in man, i.e. in sanctifying grace. Only the continual union of Mary with grace explains sufficiently the enmity between her and Satan. The Proto-evangelium, therefore, in the original text contains a direct promise of the Redeemer, and in conjunction therewith the manifestation of the masterpiece of His Redemption, the perfect preservation of His virginal Mother from original sin. Luke 1:28 The salutation of the angel Gabriel -- chaire kecharitomene, Hail, full of grace (Luke 1:28) indicates a unique abundance of grace, a supernatural, godlike state of soul, which finds its explanation only in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. But the term kecharitomene (full of grace) serves only as an illustration, not as a proof of the dogma. Other texts From the texts Proverbs 8 and Ecclesiasticus 24 (which exalt the Wisdom of God and which in the liturgy are applied to Mary, the most beautiful work of God's Wisdom), or from the Canticle of Canticles (4:7, "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee"), no theological conclusion can be drawn. These passages, applied to the Mother of God, may be readily understood by those who know the privilege of Mary, but do not avail to prove the doctrine dogmatically, and are therefore omitted from the Constitution "Ineffabilis Deus". For the theologian it is a matter of conscience not to take an extreme position by applying to a creature texts which might imply the prerogatives of God. These are just a couple of the bibilical references to our Holy Mother's holiness.  There is much more...it helps if you know Latin or Greek, Hebrew too.  But maybe this will be of some help. God's Peace!

Thanks Patty,

I became so interested that I found a Catholic site and it had lots of stuff on it.  So much to read, I can't possibly do it in a short period of time.

I believe that you should make a pac with other Christians on this board and that is not to let any non-Christian make a big deal out of this difference between our faiths in order to insinuate a wedge between our faiths that is not there.  If anyone tries to do that, I will ignore their comments and move on.

Protestants most assuredly honor and respect Mary.  How could we not when God chose her to be the mother of her very special son.  He blessed her by giving her this high honor and Protestants recognize that she was highly blessed.   We respect her and think of her with much love just as her son did.

Interestingly enough a charge comes from some Muslims I have encountered that Jesus did not respect his mother because he called her "woman" which in those days was a sign of respect.

So, my dear we can't win.

Blessings and love to you Patty.