The Qur’an II

 3] You stated that " .... Jesus [PBUH] was taken to the 7th heaven [or sky???] ... ", where is this stated in the Qur'an and, does it mean that Jesus was resurrected from the dead?

Well, not from the death, in fact he was alive when he wwas taken to heaven, and alhamdillilah, he is still alive.

JESUS RAISED TO HEAVEN

It is a sad fact of history that not many follow "the straight path", to which people were called by Jesus. He was followed by a few disciples who were inspired by God to support him. Not only that, but the non-believers plotted (as they did to Muhammad six centuries later) to kill Jesus, but God had a better plan for him and his followers as the Qur'an tells us in the following verses:

As the above verses indicate, Jesus was raised to heaven before he died.

This means that according to the Qur'an he was not crucified. It was the plan of

the enemies of Jesus to put him to death on the cross, but God saved him and

somebody else was crucified. This plot and the false accusation of Mary are

considered by the Qur'an to be some of the sins of the non-believing Jews. All

this is clear in the following quotation:

Who was the person crucified instead of Jesus? The Qur'an does not elaborate on this point nor does it give any answer to this question. The interpreters of the Qur'an have suggested a few names. But all these are individual guesses not supported by the Qur'an or the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.

This means that Jesus will come back before the Day of Judgement. Again the Second Coming is not clearly mentioned in the Qur'an. However, the explain of the Qur'an understood the last verse of the above quotation: there is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them, to mean that Jesus will come back and all the Christians and the Jews will believe in him before he dies. This understanding is supported by authentic sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.

Thomas wrote: Qur'an and the Bible is just : Why is it similar? The logic of the 2 facts is that the preceding stories are the original writings? Is this conclusion true?

hi Thomas. as been said, muslims believe in all the prophets & revelations to them from Allah, The One. thus the issue is not really plagiarism, but more about the source of the revelations. it's all from Allah. each revelations simply confirms its precedents.

Thomas wrote: Yes, definitely yes that the Jews can claim that from the Christians, but we, but we recognise that as the word of God, and also as part of the Bible.

yes, muslims also recognizes Moses & Jesus revelations as the word of Allah. believing in Taurat & Injeel is one the Islam pillars of faith, so muslims must believe or we'll expire our faith. so muslims have no issue at all in believing. rather, I think the issue is more towards wether the Jews & Christians, do they belief in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)?

Thomas wrote: do Islam recognises the Bible as the word of God? It surely doesn't consider the Bible as part of the Qur'an?

 
Yes Islam recognizes Injeel, revealed to Iesa son of Mary (Jesus) as the word from Allah. again, the revelations are reinforcements & confirmations to its precedents. the Quran is revealed, confirming Injeel, Taurat & its precedents, just as the Injeel is revealed, confirming the Taurat & its precedents.

Quran, 3:3 It is He (Allah) Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad [PBUH]) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).

Quran, 5:46 And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaq�n (the pious).

Thomas wrote: And in 3:65, what was really argued about Abraham?

as jews & christians promotes their own religions, muslims are told to state that we follow the religion of Abraham to them. if Jews & Christians follow the same religion as Abraham's religion, it's really the same religion as muslims. that was my intention. in Islam, the religion is one. just look at Abraham's religion, & compare it to your own, if you believe in him.

Quran, 23:52-53 And verily! This your religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so keep your duty to Me. But they (men) have broken their religion among them into sects, each group rejoicing in its belief.

plus the line of Prophets afterwards many descends from Abraham, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself descends of him (Ishmael). the history of Kaa'bah in Mecca also links to Abraham, whereby Abraham laid its foundations. & all of them worships & strived for the worship of the One God, Allah.

Thomas wrote: Thanks, best wishes. Especially for the coming fasting month. God bless.

OK, thanks Thomas. May Allah Blesses & Guides you as well. I hope I didn't hurt you or anything, it will blemish my fast.   If did sorry, plss. i tried my best, i hope you know that i'm not a scholar just simply stating what I know. thus I hope Allah Will Help me & fellow muslims will correct any mistakes. Thank you again.

PS: Christians fast at Lent too, correct?

Dayem:  About Dajjal --  very, very interesting:

1]  I 'm a bit surprised that in your postings there is no quote of any Qur'anic verses whatever. I take it that the source  on Dajjal was merely based on the hadiths?

2] Dajjal was/is/will be ? also something as a human being, with a short body, crooked legs, twisted hair and one eye ?

And what is meant by "Jannat" and "Jahanam" exactly?

3] Is this Dajjal a monster with extraordinary powers, such as reviving people from the dead -- posing as these people, and also as animals: a camel, and causing dry spells, etc ?

4] And Dajjal will come at the end of days, preceded by those famines,quakes and fire ?

5] And Dajjal is also the Anti-Christ ? And a "system" ? And members of the Freemasons? And quoting you " ..... all Jews, Christians, Secularists, the Munafiqeen shall fall under the banner of the anti-Christ, against Islam."  ? Well, well my dear friend, isn't this a bit too radical?   Does the Qur'an says so ? Frankly I cannot imagine it.

6]  Quoting your posting:

Narrated Abu Hurayrah: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islaam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allaah will perish all religions except Islaam. He will destroy the Antichrist (Dajjal) and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.   (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 37, Battles (Kitab Al-Malahim), Number 4310)"

This is also very interesting and raising many questons: a.o.

7] Why is Dajjal called the "Anti-Christ" ? Is it mentioned in the Qur'an?

8]  It seems that from your quotation above Jesus is considered as representing the "Good" against Dajjal the "Evil". But, what about "Iblis", the "devil" which mentioned in the Qur'an -- if I'm not mistaken? And who is more evil ?

Since the Dajjal "monster-evil" is based on the hadith, what weight does it have vis-a-v-s the Qur'an itself?

Thanks a lot .

Tom.-

Dayem:  Here are my further comments, somewhat late, but never out-of-date !

DAYEM:I still dont understand what christian believe:Do they believe in ONE God, and worship Him only and dont make any idol of him,...,or they believe in Jesus (PBUH) as God also(Or son of God?)?Jesus (PBUH) said I and my father r one.Does that imply that Jesus is Also God, who does not want his idol to be made?Then surely u do wrong by making idol of Jesus(PBUH)?
Any way, THERE ARE LOTS OF PLACE WHERE JESUS(PBUH) CONTRADICT THIS STATEMENT.
"My father, he is greater than me""My Father is greater than all"John 10:29 "Of my own self I can do nothing,...." ...to quote a few.(I av quoted these outof memory, if u dont believe me i will do an search and give u the exact location).

Let me try to explain in another way: The Old Testament stories span a time of some 4000 years. One of the main issues, even the foremost issues is, that the Old Testament describes is God's anger with the Israelites that they worshipped idols, and that they do not obey him. In the book of Exodus God explicitly and clearly COMMANDED, in the First Commandment, that it only he should be worshipped, AND NO ONE ELSE.

Then God promised in the OT to send someone to absolve mankind from their sins, that was Jesus Christ. And in the book of Matthew of the New Testament Jesus then declared the Holy Commandment just to love God only, just One God.

Of the 1500 standard Bible pages, perhaps the context of 1000 pages concerns the One-ness of God.

This One-ness of God I've tried to describe in 2 sentences. There are millions of books that analyse, examine, dissect, study the monotheism of Christianity .... So if you are serious to convince yourself of that, just read them But even the Bible is clear enough to understand that.

DAYEM:The more u the verses u will quote, the more u will contradict urself.And I dont think that tis a good idea to only discuss Islam, knowing that there r so much common teaching in Bible and Quran...

Ahaa ! You're really good, my friend! I agree fully that we have to study both holy books, the Quran and the Bible together. And this is what I exactly try to do with this thread ! And doesn't the Qur'an says that our Gods are the saem God, the same One and Only God ? 2: 163; 3: 51;18: 110; 19:35; 21: 108; 29: 46 .

And I truly believe that those verses of the Qur'an above is THE CONNECTION between God's word in the Qur'an and the Bible.

DAYEM:Ah, now how very illogical.....You mean that we should ignore the dead and dried leaf and look at the trunk?What r u driving at?IF the leaf are dried, then the trunk will be dead!!And another question, how r u going to seprate the dried leaf which has firmly squeezed the trunk?For instance, u may quote Jesus(PBUH) saying:I and my father r one.;And I will quote:My Father is greater than me.Now which one is the part of trunk, and which one is the leaf?How exactly will u figure that out??
In fact, God also thought that the tree formed by the Bible is weak,its root r old and it may fall any movement, so he sent Quran.And the tree formed by the Quran is yet healthy and not a leaf is out of place.YES!Look at the very surface of this tree, turn the leaf upside down-u will find them healthy!!

I just meant by the example of the tree is that my personal view is to be able to discuss and understand our faiths best is that we better look at the whole tree first, before examining the small leaves. The big picture of the tree, of our faiths will give an impression of what God in principal asks from us, what doctrine is conveyed. The leaves are how we have to implement the fundamentals.

I'm very much convinced that the leaves are all the same: love your neighbour, don't lie etc.

 Believe in one God alone, belongs to the main trunk. But then: don't tolerate, destroy, kill and wipe the "dis/non-believers" off the face of the earth, is that part of the the main trunk? Is it doctrinal? And where is it commanded by God in the Qur'an?

I mention this deliberately -- for the so manyth time -- because of the so many killings and terror against Christians, even today, in many parts of the world, also in my country, by groups that carry the banner of Islam.

And in another thread in this forum I'm currently discussing whether according the Qur'an Christians are considered "disbelievers" ?

Dayem:I beg ur pardon, i dont mean to offend ur faith, but R U JUDGING THE HEALTHY TREE OF QURAN BY WEAKENED TREE OF BIBLE????How can u take a verse of bible(that Jesus(PBUH) is God ), knowing fully well that it is bound to  have some error, as it is not the original BIBLE, and judge QURAN by it?How do I know that a particular verse is the word of GOD or human invention.Through Quran we come to know that Allah did revealed Bible, but this copy is not the exact one.So I hv got only one option, that is to judge BIBLE FROM QURAN and not vice versa.The common material is, all right, word of God, while other have chances that they r not.Anyway,Quran says that Jesus(pbuh) was a muslim(muslim=some one who has submitted his will against the will Of GOD)"Of myself I am unable to do anything: as the voice comes to me so I give a decision: and my decision is right because I have no desire to do what is pleasing to myself, but only what is pleasing to him who sent me."John 5:30.Then this verse is true.While another one say that Jesus(PBUH) was = God, then this verse is wrong.

First a small point, I'm not discussing the Qur'an from the Christian viewpoint.  Well, from the above paragraph, it seems to me that you can only see the Bible from the Qur'anic viewpoint. And that it is difficult for you to accept that the same God that the Qur'an mentions, have told mankind his word through another book, or even, you flatly deny that there is such a possibility ? That God may have conveyed his word and messages through an earlier people at an earlier time? Even the Qur'an is referring God's word in the Scriptures as a recognition of that reality?

My opinion is that it would be very useful to make a conclusion after you have heard and studied what Christianity, which is the word of the same God, has said first. Otherwise you are just shutting the door for a emaning ful discussion and communication, and only going to shoot at us Christians without knowing who we are, and what we really believe.

DAYEM:Prejudices!!!!?Can u tell me how and where?I hv got Quran, I beleive it to be word of GOd and all the teaching in it are very good, a wonderful book, gives all type of answer,.......comparing to bible, I dont say that it do not have important stuff-but contains pollution, contains contradictions, errors, human invention,contains 1=3.....What am I to follow?

My good friend, of course you have lots of prejudices. The whole sentence reflects that!  What you have to follow? Your faith, my friend, just your faith, what you believe ini. But does it mean that you do not need to listen what another faith says? If you can fully understand another faith, then it does not mean that you have to follow that faith! No, not at all. I  myself want to understand Islam better, to gain more knowledge of Islam. Why for instance some Islamic groups are so hostile to us Christians. Is is it Qur'an based?

DAYEM:Then why not read Quran?And why only Quran, the Gita, the vedas, the Guru granth?Why not have a muslim scholar explaining u every type of problems u may come across in Quran, so that u understand Quran better?And Y not ask Allah, God, Ishwar, Bhagwan, ALmighty, to help u in ur search?If u want to search truth, then u will have to leave the religion u follow, and with a neutral mind study all the religion again.Best of Luck.

I think I've answered that already. But, once again: it is not necessary to leave the religion you follow, if you want to understand the other religion! And, it just might be that in search of the truth with discussing and knowing other religions you may just be strengthenend in your faith that you still believe in ........ That the faith that your follow is already right.

My goal in with these discussions is just to first understand Islam better and also : what the connection really is between the Qur'an and the Bible.

DAYEM:Maybe u r right.But they dont justify there action through Quran, or do they?They only claim responsiblity.In fact I will be very surprised if they say that the attack carried out by them r in accordance with Quran..The most they some bad guys do is quote out of context to some muslim youth who is all charged up and....Any way, where is the fault of Quran?Quran has forbidden killing innocents, u know.

Hey, my dear friend, please look at the facts, they're just trumpeting that it is because of Islam !!  I definitely do not conclude that it is the fault of the Qur'an. No, I just don't know why they're doing that. Haaa, thank you for explaining to me what the look of Islam tree really is : No killing! Which verses ??

The conclusion of those killing and terror of non-Moslems is then : just human creations ?

DAYEM:Im very sorry; but if u pose question on Islam and say that bible is correct and quran have errors, i dont have much option than to turn the table over.

No, my friend, I didn't say that there are no flaws and contradictions and inconsistencies in the Bible, no, not at all, those are all leaves. But the main trunk and branhes of the Christianity tree is OK.

Dayem:Wow, which language by the way?

Well, the Indonesian language.

Best wishes. Especially for this fasting month. Thanks for reading this very long post.

Tom.-