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George
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 10:20am |
bmzsp wrote:
George,
It is important to know what the other three gospel writers have said about this. John appears very confused himself here in his 14:16-18.
John is not confused.
Let us look at John's statement "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever�(17) "The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (18) "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you."
First it says that he will pray and the Father will give another Comforter, The Spirit of Truth. Then he contradicts by saying "but you know Him,. for He dwells with you and will be in you." It means that the Christian-defined "Holy Spirit" or the Comforter was already there.
There is no contradiction. The disciples did know of the Holy Spirit. This time the Holy Spirit would indwell them.
The statement "I will not leave you orphans" confirms the same.
How so?
As to "I will come to you", he never came back. It is 2006 now.
He did come back. He lived in the disciples and he lives in me.
John has tried to use flowery language or discourse but it does not help. That is why I have asked you to produce the views of Mark, Matthew and Luke.
When you ask such questions, you should quote from all the four gospels so that we can look at matters from a wider angle and find the writers' common ground.
We cannot decide such matters by quoting from one gospel and leaving others.
Please quote from all. You are allowed to quote even from the gospels that have been declared Apocrypha.I am sure all other gospel writers were aware of this.
These books were written after the disciples died and were dead from sometimes up to hundreds of years.
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The quotes:
- Matthew 1:18
[ Christ Born of Mary ] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 1:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 1:20
But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, �Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 1:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:18-20 (in Context) Matthew 28 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.� Mark 1:7-9 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 3:29
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation�� Mark 3:28-30 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: � The LORD said to my Lord,� Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.�� Mark 12:35-37 (in Context) Mark 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. Mark 13:10-12 (in Context) Mark 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:15
For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother�s womb. Luke 1:14-16 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said to her, �The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:34-36 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:41
And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:40-42 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:67
[ Zacharias� Prophecy ] Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: Luke 1:66-68 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 2:25
[ Simeon Sees God�s Salvation ] And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. Luke 2:24-26 (in Context) Luke 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 2:26
And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord�s Christ. Luke 2:25-27 (in Context) Luke 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, �I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Luke 3:15-17 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 3:22
And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, �You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.� Luke 3:21-23 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 4:1
[ Satan Tempts Jesus ] Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Luke 4:1-3 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!� Luke 11:12-14 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 12:10
�And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. Luke 12:9-11 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 12:12
For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.� Luke 12:11-13 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
- John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, �Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.� John 1:32-34 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter)
- John 7:37
[ The Promise of the Holy Spirit ] On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, �If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. John 7:36-38 (in Context) John 7 (Whole Chapter)
- John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:38-40 (in Context) John 7 (Whole Chapter)
- John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:25-27 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)
- John 16:5
[ The Work of the Holy Spirit ] �But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, �Where are You going?� John 16:4-6 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter)
- John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, �Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:21-23 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 1:2
until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, Acts 1:1-3 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 1:4
[ The Holy Spirit Promised ] And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, �which,� He said, �you have heard from Me; Acts 1:3-5 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 1:5
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.� Acts 1:4-6 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.� Acts 1:7-9 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 1:16
�Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; Acts 1:15-17 (in Context) Acts 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 2:1
[ Coming of the Holy Spirit ] When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1-3 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:3-5 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 2:33
Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32-34 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, �Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-39 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, �Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: Acts 4:7-9 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. Acts 4:30-32 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 5:1
[ Lying to the Holy Spirit ] But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. Acts 5:1-3 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 5:3
But Peter said, �Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? Acts 5:2-4 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.� Acts 5:31-33 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 6:3
Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business; Acts 6:2-4 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 6:5
And the saying pleased the whole multitude. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch, Acts 6:4-6 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 7:51
[ Israel Resists the Holy Spirit ] �You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Acts 7:50-52 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, Acts 7:54-56 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 8:15
who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-16 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 8:17
Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:16-18 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles� hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:17-19 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 8:19
saying, �Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.� Acts 8:18-20 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 9:17
And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, �Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.� Acts 9:16-18 (in Context) Acts 9 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 9:31
[ The Church Prospers ] Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied. Acts 9:30-32 (in Context) Acts 9 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:37-39 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 10:44
[ The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles ] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. Acts 10:43-45 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 10:45
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. Acts 10:44-46 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 10:47
�Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?� Acts 10:46-48 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 11:15
And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Acts 11:14-16 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 11:16
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, �John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.� Acts 11:15-17 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 11:24
For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord. Acts 11:23-25 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 13:2
As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, �Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.� Acts 13:1-3 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 13:4
[ Preaching in Cyprus ] So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. Acts 13:3-5 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 13:9
Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him Acts 13:8-10 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 13:52
And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:51-53 (in Context) Acts 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 15:8
So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, Acts 15:7-9 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 15:28
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: Acts 15:27-29 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 16:6
[ The Macedonian Call ] Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. Acts 16:5-7 (in Context) Acts 16 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 19:2
he said to them, �Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?�So they said to him, �We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.� Acts 19:1-3 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:5-7 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 20:23
except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me. Acts 20:22-24 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:27-29 (in Context) Acts 20 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 21:11
When he had come to us, he took Paul�s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, �Thus says the Holy Spirit, �So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.�� Acts 21:10-12 (in Context) Acts 21 (Whole Chapter)
- Acts 28:25
So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: �The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, Acts 28:24-26 (in Context) Acts 28 (Whole Chapter)
- Romans 5:5
Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Romans 5:4-6 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter)
- Romans 9:1
[ Israel�s Rejection of Christ ] I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, Romans 9:1-3 (in Context) Romans 9 (Whole Chapter)
- Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:16-18 (in Context) Romans 14 (Whole Chapter)
- Romans 15:13
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:12-14 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter)
- Romans 15:16
that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:15-17 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man�s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Corinthians 7:34
There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world�how she may please her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:33-35 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 7 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:2-4 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
- 2 Corinthians 6:6
by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love, 2 Corinthians 6:5-7 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)
- 2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:13-15 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:12-14 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Ephesians 3:5
which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: Ephesians 3:4-6 (in Context) Ephesians 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:29-31 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake. 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Thessalonians 1:6
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, 1 Thessalonians 1:5-7 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:7-9 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)
- 2 Timothy 1:14
That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 2 Timothy 1:13-15 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:4-6 (in Context) Titus 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Hebrews 2:4
God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? Hebrews 2:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Hebrews 3:7
[ Be Faithful ] Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: � Today, if you will hear His voice, Hebrews 3:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 6:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 6 (Whole Chapter)
- Hebrews 9:8
the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. Hebrews 9:7-9 (in Context) Hebrews 9 (Whole Chapter)
- Hebrews 10:15
But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, Hebrews 10:14-16 (in Context) Hebrews 10 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 Peter 1:12
To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven�things which angels desire to look into. 1 Peter 1:11-13 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)
- 2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:20-22 (in Context) 2 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)
- 1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:6-8 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)
- Jude 1:20
[ Maintain Your Life with God ] But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, Jude 1:19-21 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Revelation 21:9-11 (in Context) Revelation 21 (Whole Chapter)
I did a word search on biblegateway. It picked up "Holy" in some cases. You sure are avoiding my question, BMZ.
Edited by George
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BMZ
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 8:15pm |
George,
I wrote: "Let us look at John's statement "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever�(17) "The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (18) "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." "
Then I asked:"That is why I have asked you to produce the views of Mark, Matthew and Luke."
Please quote me only, the statements from the other gospel writers regarding the above matter. I did not want to know how many places was the Holy Spirit mentioned.
I will explain as many as I can, the 100 items which you quoted, in a separate post.
In the mean time a shot for you and let me know how you feel about this:
My daughter left for Sydney and at the airport, before I saw her off, I prayed to God Almighty for her safe journey then blew my spirit onto her. I blew my spirit, not through the nostrils but from my mouth onto her and it covered her head and shoulders. What did I really do and what do you make of that? Have you seen anyone doing that to others, anywhere?
By the way, God dwells in every man or indwells every man. Hope you agree with this.
You have already got my answer. I have already explained by pointing out the contradictions within John's statement, in the previous post that the Comforter could not have been the "Holy Spirit" as it had been there. God is Omnipotent, so God's own Spirit must be within God. You cannot separate either. That leaves Jesus to be understood and explained. He was sent to guide the lost sheep of Israel and bring them back to God.
Edited by bmzsp
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Danty
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 8:44pm |
BMZSP, Jazakulakairun for your posting on this topic! I feel that Mr. George will just not get it. God is one and always will be! May Allah protect you.
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Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said "Be kind, for whenever kindness becomes part of something, it beautifies it.Whenever it is taken from something, it leaves it tarnished." (IMAM BUKHARI)
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BMZ
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 9:27pm |
George, My interpretation and comments in response for everybody's reading pleasure. Please let me know if it helped.:
- Matthew 1:18
[ Christ Born of Mary ] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. BMZ: It could have simply been reported and written:"she was found miraculously pregnant, without being touched by any man". Matthew 1:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 1:20
But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, �Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. BMZ: "Joseph, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife for the child in her womb has been created by God." Matthew 1:19-21 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. BMZ: "I baptize you with water, which everyone will do forever, even after I am long gone but another will come and baptise you with the true words of God. Note: So far I have not seen if Jesus baptised with any fire or was it his fiery speeches? In that case my interpretation is correct and extremely valid. Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. BMZ: Do you know that Ezekiel was also the Son of Man long before Jesus? Please read the Chapter Ezekiel! Here, Jesus is saying that any hard or bad talk by the people against him will not matter but people should not speak AGAINST God. Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, BMZ: I do not agree with this. This seems to be Matthew's own statement. This could not even have been from Matthew, for Jesus always spoke of God. This could be a Pauline addition. Just my observation. Matthew 28:18-20 (in Context) Matthew 28 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.� BMZ: I have already commented on this. Mark 1:7-9 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 3:29
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation�� BMZ: Please see comments in above Mark 3:28-30 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: � The LORD said to my Lord,� Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.�� So what has this got to do with Jesus. He was not even from the lineage of David or any other man! I don't like this type of statement which suggests that God was sitting on the left hand of somebody!! Mark 12:35-37 (in Context) Mark 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.BMZ: In that case, if this is true, did the "Holy Spirit" say "Eli, Eli,lama sabachtani"? Mark 13:10-12 (in Context) Mark 13 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:15
For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother�s womb. BMZ: This confirms that Jesus did NOT drink wine and liquor. To be filled with holy spirit simply shows that the person was noble and pure. It simply means Jesus was noble, had a good soul and was pure throughout from his infancy. Luke 1:14-16 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said to her, �The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. BMZ: it simply means God will make you conceive a child miraculously. I disagree with Luke who perhaps forgot to quote properly from Isaiah. If the prophecy of Isaiah were really applicable, he would have been named Immanuel, not Jesus or Yeshua. According to the prophecy, he should have been named Immanuel. Luke 1:34-36 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:41
And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. BMZ: I just can't believe that. How could a baby leap or jump in a mother's womb? Perhpas John's mother was so delighted to hear the news that she laughed in joy and felt like that. Luke 1:40-42 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 1:67
[ Zacharias� Prophecy ] Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: BMZ: To be filled with the Holy Spirit simply means, in awe or reverence of God when one feels closer or nearer to God. It was not like a spirit covering a person.Luke 1:66-68 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 2:25
[ Simeon Sees God�s Salvation ] And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.BMZ: commented already elsewhere above. Luke 2:24-26 (in Context) Luke 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 2:26
And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord�s Christ. BMZ: It was revealed by God to him. Luke 2:25-27 (in Context) Luke 2 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, �I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. BMZ: Done Luke 3:15-17 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 3:22
And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, �You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.� BMZ: Why did it have to descend like a dove, in a bodily form. It would have an adverse severe impact on the body of Jesus, a man? If the voice really came from heaven, it must have been quite loud enough for the entire Israel to hear? Luke 3:21-23 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 4:1
[ Satan Tempts Jesus ] Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, How could a man like Jesus already filled with the "Holy Spirit" have been led by the Spirit (I believe this Spirit to be Satan, am I right here?) into the wilderness to be tempted? The true test or trial of Jesus would have been without having the "Holy Spirit" cover him. This is a very serious contradiction. If I, being just an ordinary man, can be able to ward off Satan without having any "Holy Spirit" covering me, surely Jesus would have and could have done it without having any cover. Are you with me on this serious point that deserves a study and make amends? Luke 4:1-3 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!� BMZ: Simply, God can give and grant to those who ask! Luke 11:12-14 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 12:10
�And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. BMZ:Done Luke 12:9-11 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
- Luke 12:12
For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.� Luke 12:11-13 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter) BMZ: Is that what the "Holy Spirit" taught Jesus to say "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?"
- John 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, �Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.� BMZ: Done John 1:32-34 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter)
- John 7:37
[ The Promise of the Holy Spirit ] On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, �If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. BMZ: Jesus was surely not asking them to come and drink if they were thirsty in the ordinary sense of the words. It simply means that if they were in search of the Truth and wanted to find God, he would lead and guide them to God. He was definitely not offering them wine to quench their thirst. John 7:36-38 (in Context) John 7 (Whole Chapter)
- John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. BMZ: Are you suggesting here that he was not glorified by God? God does not need to glorify anyone, all have to glorify God. Please remember that God does not give his Glory to any other (Isaiah). If you are taking the word glorified as in the sense of honouring then Jesus was blessed and honoured the day he was born, the day he died and the day he will be raised again. God does not glorify others, Others glorify God. John 7 (Whole Chapter)
- John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.BMZ: If it were the Holy Spirit, then the word "the Helper" stands invalid. You are only quoting from John on this.  John 14:25-27 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)
- John 16:5
[ The Work of the Holy Spirit ] �But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, �Where are You going?�BMZ: People were intelligent enough to know what it meant, that's why they did not ask. Again quoting from John.  John 16:4-6 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter)
- John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, �Receive the Holy Spirit. BMZ: Did you read my note about seeing my daughter off? Again you have only John available.  John 20:21-23 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)
I do not wish to consider Acts, Corinthians, Ephesians, etc., onwards as they are not the gospels. Hence I do not wish to comment on them. You know well I dislike Paul for hijacking what Jesus really stood for.
Edited by bmzsp
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BMZ
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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 9:40pm |
Hi Danty,
Salaam Alaikum. Thanks for�the compliment. May Allah grant all of us the
knowledge and wisdom to understand the True message. Ameen.
You may call me BMZ. SP stands for Singapore, where I live. It is a
beautiful tiny island Republic at the lowest tip of Malaysia.
Best Regards
BMZ
Edited by bmzsp
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zulqarnain
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Posted: 30 April 2006 at 3:06am |
Here is an answer from Dr. Naik regarding the "Comforter"..
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
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And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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BMZ
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Posted: 30 April 2006 at 5:10am |
""I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.""
That is what exactly Muhammad did. Jesus, the son of Mary was not from them at all, as he was not from any man's lineage!
Thanks Zulqarnain. I held back but you brought it up. 
Best Regards & Salaam Alaikum
BMZ
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zulqarnain
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Posted: 30 April 2006 at 7:06am |
Walaikumusalaam bmz,
Thanks to our brilliant Dr. Naik. He knows what he is talking about.
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And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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