|
Did he betray me? |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1 678910 12> |
| Author | |||||||||
Nausheen 
Moderator Group 
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: 18 June 2008 at 1:54am |
||||||||
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem, Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim,
I responded to the notion "There is nothing wrong in a woman chosing to work" and my response was there is something wrong with is idea ... Let me rephrase myself, in case someone has missed the point - there is something wrong if a woman choses to work outside her home. - and this does not mean everything is wrong with this notion. If one is able to detect any difference between something wrong and everything wrong it should be borne in mind - as it will help us allow flexibility in conversation.
As for Quranic injunctions - may I ask a rehtorical question to all of you. Does Islam say that work outside her home is obligatory for woman? Is it a recommended sunnah for a woman? Is it a praiseworthy act for a woman?
When we are to consider that there is something wrong in her chosing to work does this mean it is haram for her to work? Does this mean it is blameworthy for her to work? Does this mean it is prohibitably disliked for her to work?
To the best of my understanding an answer to all of the above is a NO.
The only fiqh ruling that can apply on her working outside her home is that it is "permissible". What is a permissible act in our sharia? A lose definition may be - any action that does not entail any blame for leaving, nor does it earn any reward for performing, however it becomes rewarding when started with a noble intention.
Her marital right is that she may be fed, clothed and sheltered in kindness. - Thus Islam makes it obligatory for a man to take responsibility of all her needs. Our religious traditions (ahadith) instruct the father or the guardian to marry her into a family that has social and financial status ssimilar to her own.
These obligations on the father/guardian and the husband relieve her of the "responsibility"of working to earn a living, to run the house, or to be the breadwinner. And if she "chooses" to work - there is no blame on her, it is "permissible" for her to do so. I hope we all agree so far?
Islam says that the best and the first teacher for a child is his/her mother (till the age or 6). - Does this have any "subtle" message?? Does it say that a mother is demanded at home for the little ones? Islam says the best of ibadah is salah and the best of salah is the fard salah. The best of a woman's salah is that which is offered in the private quarters of her home. - Does this have any "subtle" message?? And for the record, la ikrah fid din :: there is no compulsion in religion. As long as you pray in clean clothes, in a state of ritual purity, facing the Qibla, and reciting all the injunctions of the salah with presence of heart, there is no reason for you to think it will not be accepted. and it is her "choice" -(no compulsion) if she wants to pray a most superior salah or just an okay salah. Beacuse when she "chooses" by her free will to work outside, she is choosing by her free will to offer a salah which is okay but not as superior in the eyes of Allah - when she is in a position to "choose" to offer a better one. - Does this not say that Allah likes a woman to stay at home (when she is forced by necessity to work outside, there is no blame on her, since working is "permissible").
Islam also says that it is the wife's duty to make the home a place of comfort for the husband - how do wives fulfil these duties who work all day outside? Islam says that a mother when she is wakes up in the night to change the diapers or tend to other needs of the baby gets the reward of a hajj. Islam says that a woman's jihad is to look after her home with good cheer, and make it comfortable for the family. Allah made the way to Jannah through the feet of the mother - not necessarily a working mother! And there are many, many subtle injunctions in our religion which indicate a woman's place of honor is within the premisses of her home.
Let us look at the secular world now - In olden times when women were not acquiring professional training, and majority of them did not qualify to work as men did, they had little choice in the outside world. This somehow got translated into the notion that working outside the home is superior to the household chores. A woman who is looking after her family, cleaning the house, cooking, etc is somehow doing something inferior to the one who is facing the challenges of the world like men. Perhaps she is less intelligent and less capable of handling those jobs - this concept got undone when women joined the workforce in great numbers. However what got undermined in the process was the huge responsibility of a household. Now when both work and are racing in the competitive world to "survive" and "excelle" in their careers, when it comes to who shld take the trash out, and who shld change the diapers, a vote needs to be caste. As if marriage is democracy. The times today have fooled women to come to the workforce and prove their intelligence, their capability, their apptitude etc. This is foolish because it is her "islamic marital right" to not to have the pressure to prove herself in this area. A woman who cannot be accepted as intelligent and appealing; and respected, honored for her character, and thanked for staying at home to make it an abode of pleasure for all, then either she does not have the art of being a wonderful wife, or she has made a terrible mistake in her choice of a husband!
Now the question of when she is forced by necessity : and this is no question at all, because in that case everything is okay if she has to work to either support herself or herself and her children - she does not have another choice.
If by choice a woman wishes to work because she has a lot of time, and not many responsibilities at home, like a young unmarried woman who is waiting for a suiter, or an elderly whose children have grown up - then she may choose to take a job which does not consume her beyond her need to tend to her homefront.
What happens when a woman chooses to work ourside, when she is better off at home, or when she is more needed at home:- This is what I was trying to shed light on when I said there is something wrong there. In most jobs there is competition, one needs to stay in workforce in order to be promoted or sometimes just in order to have ones footing there. If you go away for 6-8 years, which are more cruicial for your family, you cannot return to as nice positions as your other female collegue who made the "sacrifice" and stood the ground when the going was tough. This is one of the temptations pressuring talented, educated women to make the necessary " sacrifice" and keep working.
The work pressure and the homefront pressure weighs on her - she is stressed and this affects the marrital relationship.
Other ills of this scenario are that now she has proved her worth in the man's world - she is no way a submissive petit for the husband, she knows the rights and wrongs, and she knows what is best for herself, for him and for the family. She thinks it is okay for her to attempt to change him. She thinks it is not necessary for her to obey him in all matters. She steps in the day-to-day decision making ... undermining the authority of her husband as the head of the family. She establishes an example for the children, which is : disobedence to authority is okay if you " think " you are correct. Islamic families should not be built on such foundations.
The husband looses his respect as the head. This is also not correct for a muslim wife.
After working long hours both are tired, and but there are further demands at home and from children - the home is no longer a place for relaxation with the family - it becomes a second job for both. This causes stress, irritability, lack of patience, lack of time to spend with eachother - in short deterioration of a marriage. This is what I should have said in the first place, but did not have a very well formed chain of thoughts earleir. I have skimmed through all the responses, which helped me better to write the above peice. InshAllah I will read again all your responses and see if anything is not addressed through this post, will deal it seperately. Otherwise, this is my collective response to all of the above. |
|||||||||
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
|||||||||
 |
|||||||||
|
Nausheen
Moderator Group
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 2:13am |
||||||||
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem, Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim, Just to add, please don't bring the examples of Khadija or Aisha radiallahu anhuma - today's women do not measure up to their character in sum total. They are models to be followed, but how may wives follow them? If they did, there would not have been any marital crisis in any home. Khadija's qualification is to be certified in the words of praise and honor from rasul sallallahu alaihe wasallam. Do wives of our age earn such certificates of praise from their husbands? Aisha never worked on a pay job, but she was most beloved of all wives - what was so special about her? I don't think a sensible man's esteem is hurt merely because his wife is earning more or holds a better position at job. But his esteem is hurt when she tries to prove herself better than him. Did khaidja ever try to do that after having earned more than the beloved prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam, or are we speaking of same Khadija who herself used to carry food for him when he spent days in medidation in the cave. Or the same khadija who was a tour of support and encouragement during the boycott! And where is "respect" for a husband if a woman would try to hurt her man's esteem by trying to prove she is better.Domestic help is her right. Now tell me, is it her right after she has contributed a fair amount to the household or without that contribution? and what country are we talking about? In Japan I have not heard of domestic help. If a wife is working she is doing a job indoors and a job outdoors. How much does it cost in USA or UK?? If you are talking about Inida, Pakistan Bangladesh, or any other country where there is disparity in standards of living, perhaps every household is having domestic help, and that has nothing to do whether the wife is working of not.
Edited by Nausheen - 18 June 2008 at 2:27am |
|||||||||
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Hayfa
Senior Member
Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 3:02am |
||||||||
|
Just to add, please don't bring the examples of Khadija or Aisha radiallahu anhuma - today's women do not measure up to their character in sum total. They are models to be followed, but how may wives follow them? If they did, there would not have been any marital crisis in any home.\
|
|||||||||
|
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Chrysalis
Senior Member
Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 4:24am |
||||||||
|
Where do I start?
 First of all Sister Nausheen, I'll be honest enough to add that your views really have affected me! I feel depressed and deflated.
 Had I not done my own readings, and met other strong muslim women . . . my view of Islam would surely have gone down. . . especially had I been a non-muslim! One should be really careful not to mix up personal views with those of Islam.Like I said before, If you are happy being the submissive housewife, and that helps your marriage, Alhamdulilah . . . and all the more power to you. But I cannot digest your views generalizing over all the muslim women, or using Islam to to defend them. . . I'm just being honest.
Sister, Like I said those are your personel opinions, based on your views, your upringing, mixed with culture, traditions and norms. And I respect that. . . I have a problem with you using Islam to justify those views. Because Islam DOES NOT anywhere IMPLY that there is "something" wrong with working outside her home. Islam need not use "subtle-ness" or hint at things. . . Islam is very clear and vocal about its injunctions. . . and therefore one cannot use thier personal views, and try to justify them with "subtle" Islamic injunctions that only one sees themselves.
Sister, if we use your way of quoting Islam, we can easily make-up Islamic injuctions for everything from using hairdryers, to women driving to whatnot. Ppl can justifying the female-driving-ban by saying "Does Islam say it is obligatory for women to drive?" No. . .hence the ban is justified!
Sister, ofcourse Islam does not say it is obligatory for women to work. That is not the issue. . . But Islam also does not forbid women to work outside thier house, and that is a fact. If working outside thier houses had been detrimental to the women or thier marriages, Allah would clearly have forbidden just like he forbade so many other things that are detrimental to us, such as Pork, Alcohol, Gambling, taking Interest etc.
Any act in Islam (like u mentioned) that is done with a noble-intention, and according to Islamic principles becomes an act of 'sawab' i.e reward-worthy. No gender-bias. There is a hadith that says that even when a Muslim keeps the islamic ettiquette in mind when going to the toilet, and recites all the duas, even that act brings him sawanb. Hence if a woman, in proper Islamic hijab, goes out to work, and uses her income to give charity, perform Hajj, support her kids/husband, doesnt take interest and her job is within Islamic limitations - then her act is not only permissable, but it becomes an act of sawab/reward.
There is a Sahih Hadith that says that a Husband may not give Zakat to his wife, since she is already his responsibility. . . but a wife may give Zakat to her needy-husband, because he is not her responsibility. Obviousley the hadith assumes that the woman is going to have some sort of income to give zakat! Bcz she has to have a certain financial sum/nisaab to be eligible for Zakat. Thus, this again confirms the fact that Islam assumes that muslim Women may have incomes and financial superiority over husbands. Making it perfectly OK. And thus, again, giving zakat out of her income makes it an act of sawab=praiseworthy.
I agree with you here. However, like I mentioned above, the woman's intention can turn her job/act into reward OR sin. If she intends on working so she can show-off her financial superiority, or use it to flash her material wealth, or rub it in the face of her husband it is wrong.
But if her intention is to be a helping hand, make use of Allah's blessing of giving her a brain/intellect/talent, being a contribution to her fellow females, society -Then her job, whether inside/outside the house, becomes an act of sawab.
Infact, if it was ever an ideal age for mom's to work, it is today. Because companies actually allow omen to bring thier babies to work, and have very flexible timings. And don't say that it is not the same thing, it is the mother's choice. Infact the facilities are greater than available at home, they have feeding rooms, a nurse to help with medical issues/help new moms, etc etc. We have maternal leaves, not only in the west, in islamic countries. Malaysia gives new moms a PAID maternal leave for 2yrs. And the employer is bound by law to give the mom her job back after she returns. Maternal leaves allow women to stay at home and be with the child. After that, the child already starts school in most countries, and by working during the child's school hours, she is not at all missing out on her child.
Sister, Islam suggests that keeping in mind the comfort of the muslim woman. That is another discussion altogether. However, let me just add by saying that praying at home does not neccessarily mean a good/perfect Salaat - just like praying at a mosque does not necessarily mean a perfect Salaat. And I say that keeping in mind all the aspects of Salaat you correctly mentioned. It all depends on the niyat, concentration, level of spiritual involvement, riqqat, dua etc. Some women find they can perform a Salaat with all the above attributes at home - Alhamdulilah. Some find that the environment/serenity of the mosque, and the aspect of collective dua & jamaat is what helps thier Salaat. Which is why, for those women, Allah & His Prophet asked the Believing men not to forbid thier women from going to the Mosque. Sahih Hadith.
Also, one cannot make a sweeping statement that Allah likes a woman to stay at home. Allah judges each individual according to thier individual burdens, circumstances. A muslim woman can be a 24hr stay at home housewife, and yet be a bad muslim. . . it all depends on her actions and imaan. And a muslim woman can be a working woman, yet have stronger imaan. . . depends on the individual. And the level of closness to Allah is determined by taqwa & imaan, something that only Allah can judge - not whether or not she stays at home.
I am restricted by time and other obligations to continue my response at the moment (plus I hav to now hand the computer to my sis) Insha'allah I shall continue (yes, I cannot help it. I have a lot to say
 ) later, and respond to Brother SeeksHidayat as well.Wassalam.
Edited by Chrysalis - 18 June 2008 at 4:25am |
|||||||||
|
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 7:29am |
||||||||
|
Women were not forbidden to go to the musjid, even at night, and at the time of the Prophet men and women all prayed together in one room.
Hadith - Bukhari 1:832, Narrated Salim bin 'Abdullah
My father said, "The Prophet 'Abd Allah bin �Umar reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say: "Do not prevent your women from going to the mosque when they seek your permission." Bilaal bin �Abd Allah said: By Allah! We shall certainly prevent them. On this, �Abd Allah bin �Umar turned towards him and reprimanded him so harshly as I had never heard him do before. He (�Abd Allah bin �Umar) said: I am narrating to you that which comes from the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and you (dare) say: By Allah! We shall certainly prevent them. (Saheeh Muslim) Ibn �Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: "Do not prevent women from going to the Mosque at night." A boy said to �Abd Allah bin �Umar: We would never let them go out, that they may not be caught in evil. He (the narrator) said: Ibn �Umar reprimanded him and said: I am saying that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said this, but you say: We would not allow! (Saheeh Muslim) As for taking care of your home being the jihad of women, here are the words of the Prophet:
Hadith - Bukhari 2:595, Ibn 'Aisha
"I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shouldn't we participate in Holy battles and Jihad along with you?" He Even here the Prophet does not forbid women in battle, just advises as to the best jihad for women, Hajj. Which, by the way, does oblige women to leave the home and mix with men. And if a woman has no mahrem to accompany her, she should go in a company of women, alone!!!!! GASP!
Sisters, if you are the submissive type and find that this makes your life easier and complete, Al HamdilAllah. But please do not suggest that Islamically women should, have to, or must, behave in this manner because it simply is not true.
And to suggest that we cannot use Hazrat Khadija or Aisha as examples because women today are not worthy is ludicrous. By that reasoning no man could ever use the Prophet Mohammed as an example because no man today is worthy.
The examples of the Prophet's wives show that they were strong, intelligent, leaders of men and women, and they did not simply sit around and wait for some man to do everything for them.
Making a peaceful, loving home environment in a marriage takes both partners. Both must have respect, caring, patience, mutual understanding, and a desire to bring out the best in their spouse. It is mutual, not one-sided. Men and women have mutual rights over one another: "reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights)", (4-1), these are the Words of Allah.
As for working:
4:32 And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things.
|
|||||||||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 5:59pm |
||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
seekshidayath
Senior Member 
Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 6:00pm |
||||||||
|
Okay sisters. just answer this question of mine .
Single out one profession in the present day scenario, especially at a non-muslim countries wherein you don't confront men, wherein there is a separate working section for ladies and many more. Does she speaks sternly in a harsh voice , if at all has to deal with men, be it over phone --- ? Answer them sincerly.
Sisters, what i find is woman are breaking up many rules, in this madness of doing jobs. It does n't matter them, if they are to travel alone, they don't mind shaking hands with men. Do women in Islam stricklty adhere to these rules. May be few, but not all. Examples of sahabiyas are suggested. But do we ever see them diretly dealing with men. Khadijah RA, never directly transacted. Ayesha RA - The great Teacher - used to teach from behind curtains. There's nothing wrong if a muslimah moves out when necessary and adheres to these Islamic rules.
And Shasta's aunt, the verse you cited is perhaps in a wrong context.
As for working:
4:32 And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things.
Here is the same verse from Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
32. And wish not for the things in which Allah has made some of you to excel others. For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise
Imam Ahmad recorded that Umm Salamah said, "O Messenger of Allah! Men go to battle, but we do not go to battle, and we earn one-half of the inheritance (that men get).'' Allah sent down, " And wish not for the things in which Allah has made some of you to excel others" For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned,) indicates, according to Ibn Jarir, that each person will earn his wages for his works, a reward if his deeds are good, and punishment if his deeds are evil.
It was also reported that this Ayah is talking about inheritance, indicating the fact that each person will get his due share of the inheritance, as Al-Walibi reported from Ibn `Abbas.
I would like to remind you all this verse - "
�And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance� [al-Ahzaab - 33].
Ibn Kathir explains this part of the verse - stay in your houses and do not come out unnecessarily. Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �I have not left after me any fitnah that is more harmful to men than women"
Both men and women are to strictly lower there gaze if they confront.. There are many cases around us where in man becomes infatuated with a woman, or vice versa, which is due to mixing and prolonged interaction. So i feel in this present day scenario, home is the best place for a woman. Else she shall be responsible for erupting whole fitnah around her.
Edited by seekshidayath - 18 June 2008 at 6:11pm |
|||||||||
|
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 June 2008 at 6:11pm |
||||||||
|
Single out one profession in the present day scenario, especially at a non-muslim countries wherein you don't confront men, wherein there is a separate working section for ladies and many more. Does she speaks sternly in a harsh voice , if at all has to deal with men, be it over phone --- ? Answer them sincerly.
I know you want the women to answer but I can name a few starting with one: Beauty Salons......
Sisters, what i find is woman are breaking up many rules, in this madness of doing jobs. It does n't matter them, if they are to travel alone, they don't mind shaking hands with men.
Many of these women are professionals. Many of these women do travel and are independent and don't need a man to walk them around. These are autnomous human beings. Many of them greet men shaking their hands for a variety of reasons. for one, out of politeness. In other cultures it is rude to not greet someone now if this is a relgiious mandate them of course the professional women will tell the men that there is a religious prohibition. However, this is not universal. there are many muslim women who gret shaking hands with no problem.
I do however think its wrong to say women in today don't measure up to Khadijah and Aisha. I mean there is 6 billion humans on the planet and millions of Muslims. Making broad generalizations like that discourages women to be the best they can be. Women today shouldn't strive to be anyone else but themselves. I don't strive to behave like the prophet because I know there is only one Muhammad ibn Abdullah. there is only one Israfil. I stive to be the best human I can be and I think if any example we should take its what they did in their lives to improve their community. But I certainly think its wrong to judge the chaarcter of all women of today especially if you don't know them.
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 678910 12> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
said, 'If the wife of any one of you asks permission (to go to the mosque) do not forbid her."