believer/ nonbeliever

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Why does a person have to believe in Mohammad to be considered a believer?  Believing in GOD is not enough?

This small request makes Mohammad a partner with Allah.  You can believe in GOD but it doesn't count because one doesn't belive in Mohammad.

Way too much power is being given to Mohammad.

I am a believer but I am not a Muslim, not a nonbeliever!

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: believer/ nonbeliever Posted: 09 July 2008 at 7:07am
	Why does a person have to believe in Mohammad to be considered a believer? Believing in GOD is not enough? This small request makes Mohammad a partner with Allah. You can believe in GOD but it doesn't count because one doesn't belive in Mohammad. Way too much power is being given to Mohammad. I am a believer but I am not a Muslim, not a nonbeliever!
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 3:26am
	Believer, That is an intersting question. If all lands received a Prophet, say, I think 124,000 of them or so, no one has heard of all of them. I would say that there are different Prophet's sent to different. Lands. And that the basic concept of God / Allah was sent. But that we don't deny the Prophets. How much of most was altered to suit man's ego? I don't believe that Mohammed is a partner in any regard. But he is one of the Prohpets. And the one that we have the most recent and comprehensive information about. So thus is a better role model. Its like take Jesus. He was Jewish. He followed the rules and laws of Judaism. And yet people have eliminated that as part of their lives. Its like structure and having a holistic and complete way of living is not necessary. He like Prohpet Mohammed (PBUH) was deeply, intensely spiritual and religious. How could he not be... so the goal would be to follow him, but much of his daily actions were lost or changed. And its like say there are man Prophets. Could Buddha be one? quite possibly, and we won't know. As much has been changed and people worship Buddha. (Which he did not advocate.) When I was first learning about Islam, it was actualy harder to take it all in as we do have so much information about Mohammed (PBUH). So it takes more work and effort to understand. There is more to analyze and critic (yes the mind works that way.) And less of the "just feel good" aspects. ok I'll stop.. Edited by Hayfa - 10 July 2008 at 11:56am
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 6:23am
	Well said by hayfa. Very good. But there is more to it for the believer. I will just try to explain if it could be useful. We have a Kalimah as follows: " There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." We also say, "Muhammad is His servant and messenger". That rules out any godhead or worship of Muhammad. But the name of Muhammad in our Kalimah is very important. We believe that there is no god except Allah, the One God. That settles the mainline of faith, the Unitarian faith in complete comparison to the pagan faiths. In as much as we believe there is only One God, we also believe that Muhammad is the messenger of God. We believe in his message that he has delivered to us. WE will not believe in any one else even if he gave the message about God and the prophets. If some one came along and tried to teach us a good message and tried to lead us to a better way, we will not believe in him. That is why the name of Muhammad is included in the Kalimah. The name of Muhammad is attached to the Kalimah for ever. No one can separate the name of Muhammad from the name of Allah now, however he may try. It is permanenty attached to the name of Allah and shows us the path to guidance. If some one came to us, flying with wings and told us or led us to any teaching other than Quran and Sunnah, we will not believe him. But whoever brings the same teachings as propagated by Muhammad, we will believe and may follow that person. I am sorry, I have to write something which may not be a happy thing for the christians. It is only meant as an example to clear this same matter and to explain it further. It is not meant to downplay the christians at all. It is noted that the christians had lost the message because they listened to (and made Lords) from amongst the disciples of Jesus. They did not see what the disciples were teaching. Whether it was the same as Jesus taught them or it was something different. They did not try to be strict about that. So they lost the real message of Jesus. Every big man came along and taught few things which were contrary to the real teachings of Jesus. So the actual message was lost. The Quran is reporting these things. That no one should take other Lords besides Allah. Our Prophet Muhammad is the Seal of all prophets. The truth of all prophets is proved by our Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. WE do not mind if the christians also kept to the name of Jesus only. As an example, I can say that Hazrat Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman and Ali had been close friends of our prophet Muhammad. But if any one of them tried to teach us something contrary to the teachings of Muhammad, we will not believe them,,, We will not accept them. Edited by minuteman - 10 July 2008 at 6:28am

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:09am
	I believe that many of the Jews had stopped following the laws or had twisted them a bit before Jesus came. minuteman-Can you show where and how the Christians made Lords of the desciples? Unless of course you are talking about the Catholic church then I can understand what you mean. Muslims need to put the thought that We do not have the complete Gospel of Jesus to rest!! Remember the Quran verifies that we have the Gospel- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. 005.047 YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers. SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. Think if we do not then Allah has failed to guard over it!!! 005.048 YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

honeto Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote honeto Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 5:56pm
	believer, we have talked on some of these issues before in other threads, but no problem revisiting them. You asked: "Why does a person have to believe in Mohammad to be considered a believer? Believing in GOD is not enough?" It is important to remember that we believe in a lot of things, the point is to believe as what? For example: - to believe in God as your maker, and the Only Creator. - to believe in revelations sent by God in different times to various prophets. - to believe in the prophets of God such as Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) for our era is to acknowledge that the message of worship to One God in its purity reached to us through him. Thus the acknowledgement is, that he was a servant and a messanger of God, a man, a guide for mankind, nothing less and nothing more than that. We don't worship him, don't regard him as a saint, nor we make him a Lord or a god, as God through him has told us that if any do so, will do wrong. Furhter you wrote: "Muslims need to put the thought that We do not have the complete Gospel of Jesus to rest!! Remember the Quran verifies that we have the Gospel- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John." Quran does not mentions Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and JOhn as you quoted. However, it does tell us the Gospel was given to Jesus, a messanger of God. In fact Quran mentions many prophets who were given message from God for their times. Quran says that what was sent through Jesus(pbuh) was lost, thus leaving humanity without pure guidance, that's when God sent the Quran through Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), as a guiding light. Acknowledging him as our teacher is no different than acknowledging your school teacher without whom the classroom is incomplete. No teacher, no class, no lesson, no learning, no progress, no achievement, no graduation, simple as that. I am not a scholar, one don't need to be in order to understand the role of a teacher. And we must also remember to give the respect that a teacher deserves, and not to raise him to other levels where he does not belong. Hasan Edited by honeto - 10 July 2008 at 6:33pm
	The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:47am
	Where in the Quran does it say the message was lost? So you are saying that Allah failed to guard the Gospel, his Holy WORD?!?
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 July 2008 at 3:39pm
	Isaiah 40 6 A voice says, "Cry out." And I said, "What shall I cry?" "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field. 7 The grass withers and the flowers fall, because the breath of the LORD blows on them. Surely the people are grass. 8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2008 at 2:42pm
	Well it can be said Believer that Allah sent the word to many places. So Allah gave to people and in their arrogance and ego, altered it. And thus we have the Quran.. Allah did not fail, we people failed.
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi