For Khadija-what is true christianity

for your information, angel, if you didnt know it already - according to muslims - "true christianity" is islam!!!!   everything "true" is islam for them.  they think that europe was once muslim.  they think that muslims discovered america, and converted it.  they probably think australia and antarctica were once muslim

Edited by fredifreeloader

neither can i - but there it is.  just ask them if theres anything true in christianity thats not in islam

Angel wrote: I have never come across a muslim who has actually mention that they (or should I say MUSLIMS) know/believe what true christainity is.

True christanity is what people followed During time of Jesus (PBUH), This was before the Idea of Trinity theory.

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu Alaikum

Angel, that is because Fredifreeloader is making a play on the word �Islam�.  The root word of �Islam� is �al-silm� which means �submission� or �surrender�.  Islam, therefore, means �submission to God�.  We believe that any pious person from the Book�be it a Jew, a Christian or a Muslim�is one who submits his/her will to that of God.  We also believe that God has always commanded the following from His servants:

2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

The above ayat does not merely refer to Muslims, it is a reference to all people of the Book. 

Please note that the word �Allah� means �the God� in Arabic and indicates that there is only one God and not many.  In other words, all pious people of the Book are monotheists, believers in one God�the God�ALLAH�and not polytheists.  Allah said:

2:163 And your God is one God. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

According to the Holy Qur�an, the righteous of any of the people of the Book adhere to the above commands.  The definition for the righteous is clearly stated in the Holy Qur�an:

2:177 It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces towards East or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfill the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

So, if we take the above ayat, which refers to all of the people of the Book, and break it down, we see that the righteous have the following characteristics:

They believe in:

�        Allah

�        The Last Day

�        The Angels

�        The Book, and

�        The Messengers

 

        They also:

�        Spend of their substance, out of love for Allah

�        Steadfast in prayer

�        Practice regular charity

�        Fulfill the contracts which they have made

�        Are firm and patient in pain and adversity

If we momentarily set aside the issue of the �trinity� (since it is arguable that the trinity gives rise to polytheism�I will address this later), we can easily see that what Allah reveals in the Holy Qur�an regarding those who are righteous, are indeed the righteous people of the Book regardless of rather that person be a Jew, a Christian or a Muslim.

So, according to the Holy Qur�an, all righteous people of the Book are brethren because they all adhere to the same beliefs because they all believe in the same Book.  Allah only sent more than one prophet with the message (the Book) because many went astray after having received clear guidance:

4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah [the God�the one and only God], His angels, His Books, His Messenger, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

So, what separates the people of the book is not that they believe in different scriptures, but rather, that some have �gone far, far astray�.  How they have gone so far astray I will discuss after I answer Fredifreeloader�s accusation.

Fredifreeloader�s basic claim is that �according to muslims � �true christainity� is islam!!!!�  We need to distinguish between what Allah revealed in the Holy Qur�an and what is �according to mulims�.  Although it is true that according to the Qur�an that all righteous people of the Book have the same characteristics and they all submit to the will of Allah, it is true in the literal sense of the root word of Islam (i.e., a;-silm�submission to the will of God) and not in the literal sense that all righteous people must take Islamic Shahadah.  That is, Christians are not required to follow the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) because their prophet is Jesus (pbuh) and Jews are not required to follow the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) either because their prophet is Moses (pbuh).  They each should follow their perspective prophets and since all of Allah�s prophets are on equal footing with respect to people of the book (that is, we should not make distinctions between them since they are all equally messengers, servants, slaves of Allah�s), there is no need for a righteous person of the Book to convert/revert. 

It is clear by the Holy Qur�an that Fredifreeloader is wrong in saying that Christians or even Jews must enter Islam by taking Islamic Shahadah and thereby becoming a member of the Islamic faith.  It is made clear by the following ayat that the people of the Book are classified according to the Book and the prophet which was ordained by Allah to present it at the time the messenger was sent with it and which they come to submit their will to Allah through.

2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Why is this?  Why did Allah send more than one messenger? Because:

2:213 Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.

That is, because before He sent the Book, people �differed� and even after He revealed to them �clear Signs�, some differed through �selfish contumacy�.  Yes, as it evident throughout history and in the world today, even though GOD blesses us with His Truth, some people have stubbornly and selfishly resisted His authority.  However, Allah is the Most Merciful of the merciful and because of this, He send a number of prophets to set straight what men had made crooked so that humankind could be guided back to His Straight Path.

With respect to the other things Fredifreeloader said:

fredifreeloader wrote: they think that europe was once muslim.  they think that muslims discovered america, and converted it.  they probably think australia and antarctica were once muslim

That is simply the craziest thing I have ever heard.  I�m sorry Fredifreeloader but you are way off base so you need to show where you got this nonsense.  And I mean �nonsense� in the literal sense because what you said simply does not make any sense. 

Now, according to the Qur�an, there are two problems with �mainstream� Christianity (i.e., Christians err in two ways) which gives rise to the conflicts which we see between Christians and Muslims.  First, they err when they believe in the �trinity�.  The trinity, no matter how you look at it sets Jesus (pbuh) as equals with Allah.  I say this because regardless of which version of the trinity is considered, those who believe in the trinity believe that Jesus (pbuh) is God and not simply a prophet/messenger/servant/slave of God�s.  That is the central problem of Christianity according the Qur�an plain and simple.  The problem is not believing in this or that flavor of the trinity, but rather, it is in believing that any doctrine of the trinity is a part of God�s Divine Revelation/Holy Scription/Book.   

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

The second way they err is by not acknowledging Muhammad (pbuh) as a true prophet of God.   Notice I didn�t say �THE true prophet of God�, but rather, �A true prophet of God�.  There is no need for a Christian to acknowledge the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the only true prophet of God or even as the prophet whom they follow.  Allah said in the Holy Qur�an:

10:47 To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.

All prophets of God are indeed true prophets of God, thus there is no reason to follow the example of one over another except for the fact that Allah calls people to His Straight Path through a particular messenger. 

As was shown in ayat 2:285 at the beginning of this post, we should not make distinctions between God�s prophets.  They are all equally messengers and were given the Truth.  However, we must follow them in TRUTH and not in ERR.  In the Holy Qur�an, God reveals that the People of the Book who came before the time of Islam did indeed err by deviating from His TRUTH.

3:110 You are the best nation ever to be produced before mankind.  You enjoin the right, forbid the wrong, and believe in Allah. If the People of the Book were to believe, it would be better for them.  Some of them are believers but most of them are deviators.

So, when Muslims call for Christians to turn to God in TRUTH, they are not saying they have to make Islamic Shahadah.  What they are saying is that they need to stop erring and believe in Jesus (pbuh) in TRUTH (i.e., that he is a Prophet and not God) and that they should acknowledge the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a legitimate prophet of God.  However, for Christians, to do this means that they must give up the trinity doctrine which they simply are not willing to do.  It appears that is far easier for them to reject the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) rather than to try and undo centuries of damage done and giving up the power that was gained by adhering to a false doctrine.  The truth of the matter is that one cannot acknowledge that Muhammad (pbuh) is a true prophet of God without accepting 1.) what was revealed to him by God (i.e., that the trinity is a false doctrine) and 2.) why God sent another prophet after Jesus (pubh) (i.e., that the People of the Book had once again gone far, far astray).

Before I get jumped on, let me say this.  I am not overlooking the fact that the Muslim Ummah is indeed in a sad state at the present time in history.  Muslisms are not immune from the �selfish contumacy� which Allah spoke of in 2:213 (this ayat is quoted earlier in this thread).  It is apparent that in the world today many Muslims have attempted to bend the Holy Qur�an to their traditions and culture rather than submitting their will to Allah.  This is indeed a deviation and the Ummah is suffering the consequences from either doing this themselves or allowing it to happen within their communities.  Muslims who do this or allow it to be done will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment just as other Peoples of the Book who have deviated from the TRUTH will be held accountable for their actions. 

22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

What I have said here is not a means to condemn anyone; doing so is not my job or my right. There is only one who has the right to judge and all People of the Book know who that One is.  As a Muslimah I believe in the Day of Judgment and I make the following du�a which is from 2:285 or the Holy Qur�an:

I hear, and I obey: (I seek) Thy forgiveness, Lord, and to thee is the end of all journeys.  Ameen!

And I try my best every day to live my life such that:

My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (6:162)

And I pray that all People of the Book are guided to do the same.  Ameen!

Ashukru-lillahi Rabbil-Alameen Wala- Hawla  Wala Quwata Illa Billah

Wa Salam

Sister Khadija