Jews and Christians and Allah

George,

I think it would have been proper if you had posted the following  before, then people would have known why I said that. It was in response to your comments.

Here is the exchange for an easy reference:

From you, George: "The Arabic speaking Christians when they refer to the generic term "Allah" are worshipping YHVH.  They don't think in terms of Islam, but in the terms of the Old and New Testaments.  This is the same of any foreign speaking Christian.  The word God is different in Spanish, German, etc.  Most would tell you that they don't worship the same God that you do."

My Response: You have confirmed my point that Allah means God in Arabic and when Christian Arabs speak of Allah, of course they mean Yahweh or HaSchem. The Arab Christians are not worshipping my Allah. I know that. The word God is not even a real name used by the Semitic religions but all of us have borrowed it from English.

From you, George: "I'm sure it does, but there is more to it, BMZ.  When Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, YHVH, or Ha'Shem, they do not think of the Islamic God Allah.  I'm sure you will agree that "Allah" is not God's personal  name�it simply means God in Arabic.  Also according to my friend who reads the Bible in Arabic does not call Jesus "Isa."  I would have to look up what he calls him."

My Response: The Jews do not worship the Christian God at all. Period! They worship their own God by the name of Yahuweh or YHVH or HaSchem, which have been borrowed by Christians from the Jews. The Christians have modified the God of Jews and worship a Triune God also known as "YHVH" or "Yahweh" but mainly call him God. Both the Jews and the Christians do NOT worship the Muslim God known by the name of Allah.

We can now expect people to be in a better position to comment. Good Night from my side.

George,

From you: "The rest of what you said is not relevant to my topic. Most Jews for certain would tell you that they do not worship the Muslim God Allah and most Christians would tell you the same."

It is relevant to your topic now that I have pointed out. Most Jews, their rabbis and Scholars will tell you bluntly that they do not accept the Christian God. They will also tell you bluntly that they DO NOT even read or recite the Christian OT.

From you, George: "Muslims have always told me that they worship the God of the Christians and Jews."

Muslims worship the God of the Jews, without any problem. Muslims worship the God of Jesus but Muslims DO NOT worship the Triune God of Christianity.  

From you, George: "The only thing that the Jews disagree with the Christians on is the nature of God."

That is incorrect. Jews do not accept a Triune God or Trinity or a Tri-unity. Jews are extremely monotheistic like Muslims. Just One Almighty God.

This is not a topic of the Trinity; that subject is on another thread.

George's statement: BMZ, you must be tired.  Of course, the Jews do not accept a triune God.  That is not the subject.  And never forget that Christians are extremely monotheistic and believe in One God Almighty.

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 I quote George's statement 'And never forget that Christians are extremely monotheistic and believe in One God Almighty.'

My response:Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - in one divine being.

If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:

"...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be save must thus think of the Trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)

Let's put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?

It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.

Jesus did not preach the Trinity during his life. The Trinity was introduced by a group of corrupt Christian priests of Nicea since 325 AD. That means 325 years after Jesus was gone!

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad had rejected the Trinity by saying that God is One and Only. They never say that God is One in Three! Proofs:

Moses says "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Jesus says "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)

Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam.

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73) It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.

Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)

Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.

In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelations to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:

"...your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (Qur'an 18:110)

"...take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (Qur'an 17:39)

...Because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout All His Revealed Scriptures:

"...I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other)..." (Qur'an 21:92)

There is no God but God Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.

This is the belief of Christians.