Conservative Muslims |
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ZubairH
Newbie Joined: 11 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: 05 October 2006 at 3:44pm |
I honestly dont like when muslims become too fundamental and conservative. It really sickens me. They say you must pray every rakat, even sunnah. They say that if you eat medicine, then you will break your fast. They say that women who dont wear hijabs will burn in hell for doing so, even if they practice and believe. They say that kufaars wil burn in hell forever, even if they were nice people.
Would Allah really be this mean? I don't think so. Who would be mean enough to put someone in that much torture forever unless he is as bad as satan himself? Of course they will go to hell, if they were nice then not so torturous, then they will come out and live in the lowest of heavens, yet still a heaven. This is what I believe. Not just People of the book, everybody. Its really not their fault that they were Hindu, or Christian, or Jewish, or Athiest, unless they converted to. It was the culture and family they were raised with that put in their brains, sort of like being brainwashed but without ever having anything in the beginning. If Allah did send another religion down, hypothetically speaking, and it was really the true word of god, then would you believe in that religion? No of course not. You believe that this is the last religion. So do Christians and Jews, and others, they believe this because of what the Old and New Testament say. They dont believe there is another religion after theirs. Of course these writings have changed, but do they think that? No. If our Koran had been changed in the 11th century, and it has been changed to say that alcohol was allowed, would we know? If we did, why would anyone believe it? Hypothetically speaking. Although those people will have to face some punishment because they are not really muslims, I dont think it will be a serious one, if they were good people and truly respected a god. At least if the are monotheistic, you must give me. Muslims will be treated the same way, but being a muslim, it acts as having more rewards than others. I also want to make the point, doing anything, even drugs, even those that intoxicate, are NOT haraam, IFit does not steer your mind away from god, or if it does less damage then good, or if it is unsignificant damage, like gives you constipation or headaches or something. Remember, it applies to EVERYTHING. Also, why do many muslims believe that sufi people are not true or 100% correct muslims? Theyre ritual dancing makes just as much sense as our Dikr. It is a form of meditation. Muhammad (pbuh) meditated himself. So did Jesus (pbuh). Many other profets as well (pbut). In fact they will recieve rewards because they are trying to get closer to god, as we do when praying or doing Dikr. Though they do have to pray. It is not a replacement for praying. What other practice do Sufis commit wrong. I dont see any. Even using drugs in their rituals, it is not haraam, because it doesnt fall under either of the two requirements listed above. It brings them closer infact, and does not harm them. I also want to bring this big one up, that I believe in veeeeery strongly. I would please like to know what is wrong with music that does not inspire you to do bad things. How could allah forbid it. It is unavoidable, and natural. There is nothing better than hearing music. Ofcourse if it is a song about saying how god is bs and doesnt edxist, god forgive them, then it is ofcourse haraam, unless you are hearing it to see what they are saying, not for enjoyment or insight. This is what I believe. Comments please. Don't hesitate to disagree. |
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu, Don't hesitate to disagree ------ "They say you must pray every rakat, even sunnah. " They say that if you eat medicine, then you will break your fast. What does fasting means to you? If one is so sick he's asked not to fast. They say that women who dont wear hijabs will burn in hell for doing so, even if they practice and believe" Do they really practice islam. If so Women in Qur'an are asked to wear hijabs na. They say that kufaars wil burn in hell forever, even if they were nice people. Its not that so called fundamental and conservative muslims say so, Its the revealed verses of Qur'an that says that kuffars will be burnt in the hell forever since they deny oneness of Allah ta'ala or believes else other than Allah, Its really not their fault that they were Hindu, or Christian, or Jewish, or Athiest, unless they converted to. It was the culture and family they were raised with that put in their brains, sort of like being brainwashed but without ever having anything in the beginning. If Allah did send another religion down, hypothetically speaking, and it was really the true word of god, then would you believe in that religion? No of course not. You believe that this is the last religion. So do Christians and Jews, and others, they believe this because of what the Old and New Testament say. They dont believe there is another religion after theirs. Qur'an says that every born-child is a muslim and later as u said he's raised either hindu or so onnnnn. As u talked of brains, these brains are to be used. Even we muslims are asked to ponder over the verses and not follow our fore fathers blindly.
So do Christians and Jews, and others, they believe this because of what the Old and New Testament say. They dont believe there is another religion after theirs Although those people will have to face some punishment because they are not really muslims, I dont think it will be a serious one, if they were good people and truly respected a god. At least if the are monotheistic, you must give me. Muslims will be treated the same way, but being a muslim, it acts as having more rewards than others. Let me clear a misconception of yours, Who said that muslims will not be punished? But the difference is after there punishement is over they are then sent to jannah. Any one who prays other than Allah ta'ala is thrown in hell and there deeds are of no use then. There are many verses regarding this. Insha-allah will paste them next. Abu Talib uncle and care taker of our prophet {sallal lahu alaihi wasallam} was such a nice person. But did not embrace islam. Its said that he will be punished lightly. I also want to make the point, doing anything, even drugs, even those that intoxicate, are NOT haraam, IFit does not steer your mind away from god, or if it does less damage then good, or if it is unsignificant damage, like gives you constipation or headaches or something. Remember, it applies to EVERYTHING. For understanding of the verses of Qur'an we need the help of Hadeees. One cannot undertsand those verses by a mere read. Every verse has its context tooo na.There are many ahadith about it, Please go through them and still if you feeel its not haraam then let us know. |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Also, why do many muslims believe that sufi people are not true or 100% correct muslims? Theyre ritual dancing makes just as much sense as our Dikr. It is a form of meditation. Muhammad (pbuh) meditated himself. So did Jesus (pbuh). Many other profets as well (pbut) We are not to abuse any sects here. There is no scope of percent in muslims no one is a 50 % muslim or 25. We are asked to submit ourselves completely to Allah. Do you dance while Dhikr?. We are asked to follow the sunnah of our Prophet {sallal lahu alai hi wa sallam} and our Prophet never did such MEDITATION There is no scope for innovations in a true religion. These are the ways which are 2 be followed to get closer to Allah "The reasons which cause mahabbah (love) of Allaah to develop, are ten: First: Reciting the Qur'aan, reflecting and understanding its meaning and its intent. Second: Drawing closer to Allaah � the Most High � through optional deeds, after fulfilling the obligatory duties. Third: Being continuous in the dhikr (remembrance) of Allaah, with the tongue, the heart and the limbs � under all circumstances. The more continuant the dhikr, the more muhabbah develops and intensifies. Fourth: Giving precedence to what Allaah loves over personal loves, when being overcome by desires. Fifth: Contemplating and deliberating over the Names and Attributes of Allaah. Sixth: Recognizing and remembering the favors and bounties of Allaah � both manifest and hidden. Seventh: To be humble and submissive before Allaah � and this is the greatest matter. Eighth: To be in seclusion reciting the Qur'aan, during that time in which Allaah descends to the lowest heaven (which is the last third of every night), finishing this recitation with seeking Allaah's forgiveness and repenting to Him. Ninth: To sit in the gatherings of the true and sincere lovers of Allaah, reaping the fruits of their speech, and not to speak except if there is benefit in it and that you know that such talk will increase you in goodness and that it will benefit others as well. Tenth: To stay clear of all those causes which distances the heart from Allaah � the Mighty and Majestic. So these are the ten reasons which cause the person to develop true love for Allaah and to reach the rank of al-muhabbah, by which he reaches his Beloved.
Please take this as a discussion not a debate. |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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To start up with as its said earlier that we need to go thru a context of the verse and most of the verses are well understood by the reference of the authentic hadith. Coming to the topic here regarding Alcohol and the intoxicants, there are three verses revealed. Hazrat Umar raziallah ta'ala anha prayed Allah in regarding it. So this verse of surah Al-Baqarah had been revealed. "They ask you {O Muhammad sallal lahu alai hi wasallam} concerning alcoholic drink and gambling Say : In them is a great sin and some benefits for men but the sin of them is greater than their benefit " And they ask u what they ought to spend-----". Our prophet sallal lahu alaihi wasallam recited this verse to haz Umar raziallah ta'ala anha. It was not clear to him. So he prayed "OAllah make this verse more clear to us". It was then the verse of surah Nisa 43 was revealed :" O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat when you are in a drunken state until you know the meaning of what you utter". Hazrat Umar was again called and it was recited. But still it was unclear and again did he pray "OAllah make this verse more clear to us". Its said that after this verse was revealed during the time of prayers any of the sahabas would stand and say loudly ,"Approach not if in a drunken state" as alcohol was not declared haraam then. It was the third time that verse of surah Maidah , was revealed , ""O you who believe! intoxicants {all kinds of alcoholic drinks} and gambling, and Al-Ansab and Al-Azam {arrows for seeking luck or decision} are an abonimation of shaitan's handi work. So Avoid {strictly} that {abomination} in order that you may be successful" - verse- 90 Al-Maidah "satan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants {alcoholic drinks} and gambling and hinder you from remmebrance of Allah and from As-Salat {the prayer} So will you not abstain ?"- 91 Hazrat Umar raziallah ta'ala anhu was called again and the verse was recited. This verse ends with "Fahal anthum munthaqoon " So will you not abstain? and Hazrat Umar replied "Intehaina intehaina" we abstain ,abstain' Here two things are to benoted : Its said that its handi work of shaitan Is it right to follow shaitan? and the verse ended strictly "Will you not abstain?" Its like a warning given. Inorder to be successful we are asked to abstain from it. Right now i remember one hadith " Narrated Abu Aamir or Abu malik Ashari that he heard Prophet sallal lahu alai hi wasallam saying "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcohol and use of musical instruments as lawful and from them there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with there sheep and ask for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow" Allah will destroy them during the night and will let mountain fall on them and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain till the day of Resurrection" Sahih Bukhari vol-7 494B
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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ZubairH
Newbie Joined: 11 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Yes, but how is dancing haraam? It doesnt say its forbidden in the koran. And why is music haraam? Seriously, besides "bad" music which I explained, what is the problem? My point is, so what if Muhammad (pbuh) didnt do these types of meditations. That doesnt mean we can't do them. It's just another way of doing it. What do you mean when you said,"Do we dance when doing dikr?" So what? It is just another way. Just another thing, it is known, as a fact, that the prophet pbuh enjoyed singing very much. How is this different in any way from music except for the fact that it has words with it, sometimes not even? The voice is one of the most popular instruments, you cannot deny that this is music. What about whistling? Prophet muhammad indeed was very fond of music. |
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ZubairH
Newbie Joined: 11 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Also, I honestly do not think that at least Christians nor Jews will burn in hell forever at the least. You said that they should use their brains. How can they do so without being ever taught to use them in such a way? Most people can't learn to use their brains like this by themselves, unless they use marijuana. Yes I said it. Marijuana helps people understand better. Marijuana is a mental stimulant. Also marijuana does not make you do anything that is considered a sin, like alcohol can do sometimes. DO NOT tell me intoxicants are haraam, because alcohol was replaced immediately by other intoxicants such as marijauna and other intoxicating teas. It is even suggested that Muhammad pbuh used marijuana himself, while meditating.
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ZEA J
Senior Member Joined: 01 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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Where did you get that "fact" from, Which hadith or ayat? |
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"You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you
spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92) |
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air_one
Newbie Joined: 23 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Where did you get this idea from? |
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