Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Greetings and good day to all.

Thankyou for sharing this with us, to help us understand the standpoint or viewpoint of the hindu ahderants.

I have some questions, but will begin with only one for now...and it had struck my mind earlier, but even more so now, in light of the explanation you have given of some spellings here.

What does your name mean? 'bharatiya'??

Will continue with the rest of my questions/comments a bit later, inshaAllah.

balqees.

 

Salaam To:All

If we want to have a mutual understanding, then I would encourage 'thinking-muslims' to step out of their muslim mindset and understand the concepts from an Indian stand point.

Similar stance should be adopted by baratiya, to momentarily suspend his concept of Brahman and understand the concept of 'Tawheed' from Islamic stand point.

Muslims must familirise them with Philosophical and Theological concepts stated by Baratiya i.e such as transcedence and immanance

For muslims, literal approach to Quran will not be enough to expound the concept of ' Tawheed'.

Hopefully I will contirbute towards this concept later.

Regards

Fuhad

 

Salaam To: Bharatiya

Here is an explanation on Concept of God from one of the most celebrated scholar of Islam. You can equate him to be the 'Sankara' of Islam.

Hope you will enjoy reading it.

Regards

Fuhad

Allah

                                Both Transcedent and Immanent

Tawheed

An artistic rendering of �the word Allah.�

In order to provide a better understanding of Islamic Tawheed, we have provided a description of Allah and some of His attributes as it appears in a famous, classical text of Islamic knowledge. The following is an original translation of excerpts from Revival of the Religious Sciences by Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali [1][1]10:

Allah is singular in His essence with no partner, Unique with no equivalent, Absolute, no opposite has He, Alone without peer. He is beginningless without predecessor, perpetual of being without end, singularly sustaining everything without stop. He is not victim to termination or cessation, or to the elapsing of spans or the passing of interims. Rather He is the First and the Last; the Outward and the Inward � and He has knowledge of everything.

He is not a body with form, nor is He a confined or quantifiable substance. He does not resemble bodies in quantifiably or divisibility. Rather He resembles nothing existent, nor does anything existent resemble Him. There is absolutely nothing like Him, nor is He like anything.

No measure confines Him, no space contains Him, no direction encompasses Him, nor do the heavens surround Him.

He is above everything until the farthest reaches of the stars � an above-ness that does not increase His nearness to the heavens; rather He is exalted in degree above the heavens to the same extent that He is exalted in degree above the depths of the earth. Notwithstanding, He is near to all existence, and He is nearer to the bondsman than his jugular vein. His nearness, however, no more resembles the nearness of bodies one to another than His essence resembles the essences of bodies.

He is too sublime that space should encompass Him, as He is too hallowed that time should restrict Him. Rather He was, before He created time and space, and He is now as He was always. He is separate from His creation by His attributes. He is transcendentally holier than to be subject to change and movement. Rather He remains in His qualities of absolute majesty, not subject to abating, and in His qualities of perfection with no need of increase.

He is Living, Almighty, Irresistible, Overpowering; deficiency does not affect Him nor does incapacity. �No slumber can seize Him nor sleep.�[2]11 Extinction and death do not counteract Him. He is possessed of absolute dominion, sovereignty, and grandeur; to Him is creation and command.

He is matchless in creating and beginning, solitary in causing existence and originating. He creates all beings and their acts, decrees their sustenance and spans. Nothing possible is outside His grasp, and He is never detached from the absolute governing of all affairs. His abilities cannot be enumerated, and His knowledge is boundless.

True conviction in Allah�s existence and in His actual relationship with every one of us comes only with His mercy and guidance.

He knows all things knowable, encompassing all that transpires between the depths of the earths to the ends of the universe. Nothing of an atom�s weight in the earth and the heavens escapes His Knowledge; rather He knows the creeping of a black ant across a soundless stone on a lightless night. He knows the movement of the particles on a windy day. He knows the hidden and what is beyond. He presides over the thoughts of the conscience, the movements of the cerebrations, and the recondite subtleties of the psyche, with a beginningless, eternal Knowledge that has been with Him forever.

He is the willer of all that exists, and He is the director of all that occurs. Nothing occurs in the seen or unseen world, be it minimal or abundant, small or large, good or evil, beneficial or harmful, of belief or disbelief, knowledge or ignorance, triumph or ruin, increase or decrease, obedience or defiance, except by His decree, foreordainment, command, and volition. What He wills is, and what He does not will is not.

A servant has no escape from disobeying Him except through His conferred success and mercy; he has no power to obey Him except through His assistance and will. If all of mankind united together to move or retard a single atom in the universe without His will and volition, they would be unable to do so.

He hears and He sees. No audible thing, however faint, escapes His hearing, and no visible thing, however minute, is hidden from His sight. Distance does not impede His hearing and darkness does not obstruct His seeing. His attributes do not resemble the attributes of the creation to the same extent that His essence does not resemble the essences of creation.

Everything other than Him is an originated thing that He created by His power from nothingness, since He existed in eternity alone and there was nothing whatsoever with Him. He originated creation thereafter as a manifestation of His power and as a realization of His preceding Will, not because He had any need of it.

He is Magnanimous in creating and in imposing obligations upon His creation; He is not compelled to do it by necessity. He is Gracious in beneficence and reform, though not through any need. Munificence and Kindness, Beneficence and Grace are His. He rewards His believing worshipers for their acts of obedience according to generosity and encouragement rather than according to their merit and obligation, for there is no obligation upon Him in any deed towards anyone. Tyranny is inconceivable in Him, for there is no right upon Him towards anyone.[3]12

While these are the Islamic beliefs on Allah in written form, it must be noted that a person is not accountable for his intellectual understanding of them, but rather he is responsible for truly incorporating them in his heart. True conviction in Allah�s existence and in His actual relationship with every one of us comes only with His mercy and guidance. As such, Muslims ask Allah in every prayer for guidance unto His Straight Path.

 

Hello Friends!!

I will post this one in both of our topics, I mean, I will post this post even in our discussion, "Islam and Hinduism".  I have posed some questions at the end of this post.  I sincerely say that I did not pose them to demean Islam or with any ill-will towards you.  Please, no offence should be taken.

First let me tell you one thing.  The passage I have posted is not a comprehensive passage about Brahman.  It needs a lot of study to assimilate the concept of Brahman.  People think that they understand the concept of Brahman. 

The quote I have quoted from the Mandukya Upanishad, "That supreme Brahman is infinite, and this conditioned Brahman is infinite. The infinite proceeds from infinite. Then through knowledge, realizing the infinitude of the infinite, it remains as infinite alone", has a lot of meaning and has a very big explanation.

And another thing, I wanted to answer you the answer to the so called 'exploitation'.  I always start laughing when people talk about caste system.  As Francois Gautier points out,"Caste system is the favourite whipping boy of Hinduism".

No one knows what it is, but everyone talks about it.  Once a little girl asks her father what caste means, the father answers that she will understand it when she grows up.  She grows up and asks the same question again, then her father scolds her saying that she has grown up and should understand it by now.

Thats the situation, no one knows what caste is.

Now, coming to brahmins, they just considered others to be untouchables.  But not all brahmins considered so.  Only a few used to think that they were superior(just like muslims now think that theirs the only true religion).  Thats why we say that they are a minority.

But they didn't force their feeling on others.  They didn't kill a single soul.
They didn't use their scriptures to 'exploit' them.  Its just a feeling.

So as you can see, its a moral thing than a legal.  Though I feel untouchability is a sin, I can't go on against them.  What we can do is appeal to them. 

Most of the Muslims(even Indian Muslims) consider Hindus "Kafi**".  Its your feeling.  We can't change it.  Should we ask all of them to apologize?

There had been many Kings and their fellow brahmins who asked them to discard such a feeling as it was not a good idea.

But everyone I encounter ask the same question about caste system.

AhmadJoyia wrote: I think it is this interpretation of "Gods who have sprung out of Brahman" that makes it polytheistic oriented. Isn't it? And hence forth all your definitions starts to change especially once trying to define Brahma against Brahman.

Well, if you want to call it a polytheistic religion, so be it.

And concept of Brahma is a complete different one.  The concept of Brahma does not come immediately after we study the concept of Brahman.  It is, sometimes, not considered at all.

You have simply provided all the paras of theo-philosophy to explain Brahman, what about Brahma? and how do you say "the Hindu Creator God"? What philosophy, what reasons, etc???

It needs a thorough understanding of Brahman, to understand Brahma.

Yes, I could see the line of reasoning where, Brahman, Brahma, and Brahmin so closely resembles to each other especially in their hierarchy and sequence of order they appear to influence people.

What hierarchy do you mean?  I numbered them as points, not as a hierarchy.

Meaning thereby, that no one can or should not approach Brahman as it (he/she) is way too far from human understanding (yet we have seen so much about it, philosophically say).

LOL...Who said that?  What a conclusion to make!

However, we should only look at the Gods (who sprung out of Brahman) through Brahmin only???

Oh my God!  Hope you are not a scientist.  Meaningless assumptions give rise to meaningless conclusions.

What a wonderfull hypothesis by the people with specific agenda of ruling over the masses (remember exploitation)?

The hypothesis are being made by you my dear.  
There was no 'exploitation'  the way you think.

It is here that we must ask for authenticity of the derived doctrine of Hinduism.

No, not again.

Not even a single word has been changed in the Vedas etc.  They are as much intact as Quran is.

It is easy to explain when the situation is compared with Quran.
In the other post titled "Need translations..." you pointed out that they were politically motivated translations.  Similarly, some of the verses in the Vedas were translated by someone who doesn't know how to translate them.

If Quran is translated correctly and it is true that Quran preaches 'equality' then why are women not given equal rights?

Why are there so many divisions like Shias, Sunnis, Ahmadis etc.?

Why were Bangladeshis not considered true muslims?

(these are only few, there are many more to point)

When I point such things, you people say that my mindset is a Kafi*** mindset.LOL

Peace and Love.


Edited by bharatiya