Kurdish Green Line, Turkish Red Line |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
Nausheen
Moderator Group Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 11 March 2005 at 8:29pm |
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem, Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim Kurdish Green Line, Turkish Red Line Edited by administrator |
||
Nausheen
Moderator Group Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
For history of the Iraqi regimes' "Arabization" campaigns, see Human Rights Watch, "Iraq: Forcible Expulsion of Ethnic Minorities" (March 2003).
The report is accessible online at http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/iraq0303/ |
||
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
||
DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Mustaffa and Suleyman - what do you guys think about this alliance
between the UIA and the Kurds? It would get the US out of Iraq a lot faster, but I can understand why that might worry Turks. You guys would be seeing Iranian BBQ grills from your back porch within a fortnight. You guys know the picture - please post! DavidC |
||
Mustafaa
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2001 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I discussed this subject on another Islamic discussion board some one week ago. I use the identity "Mathsson" there. Below is the discussion among myself and a sister who's using the identity "Turkgirl" and another brother who's using the identity Abu Turaba. Mathsson (i.e. Mustafaa) wrote: I'll quote a news report, but I will talk myself before that.
People talk about Syria and Iran, but many guess that a future war between Turks and Kurds, with Americans siding with one of them, most likely with Kurds, is in the making. I am sorry that I did not feel enough sympathy for my Iraqi and Irani brethren, who were led to a terrible war by Saddam Hussein, the then puppet of western imperialism, who initially claimed to fight in the name of Western secularism against Khomeini's Shariah regime in Iran. Now, the American plans on the Central Islamic Lands have been taken even further, and the accursed American government is planning to attack Iran after its deceptive and deceitful occupation of Iraq. More directly concerning for me, my friends and my family is a possible war between Kurds and Turks in North Iraq. It just depends on the American plans for the future of OUR lands WHEN we, the people of the Central House of Islam, will be taken into another war among ourselves by our stupid rulers and the Americans. There was already a war within Turkey between the Turkish army and the PKK (the Labour Party of Kurdistan), both led by secularist despots abusing the grievances of the Turkish and Kurdish nations. When Abdullah Ocalan, the leader of PKK, was captured and put in jail several years ago, the war paused. I fear that even a worse war may be being planned by the accursed Americans who have come here to stir up hate and resentment and pretexts for future occupations of OUR lands. Here's the news report from al-Jazeerah:
Turkgirl wrote in reply: Well the first thing is, I think the Turks are too uptight when it comes to Kurds. The Kurds in Turkey have been denied fundamental rights by the Turkish government for so long (I think that goes also for Kurds anywhere else), but this is will all be settled iA.
The current government is giving Kurds more rights Concerning the current dilemma, of Turks getting in war with Iraqi Kurds; I think Turkish politicians think like this; an attack can lead to the partition of Iraq, which can mean the establishment of an independent Kurdistan, which can mean they also want to include the cities with an high Kurdish population in Turkey to this new Kurdistan. I would want them to think like this; Lets do what's best for our Kurdish brothers in Islam. But the thing is Turkey is Sunni, and many Kurdish Iraqi's are Shia, I hope this will not divide us. Furthermore, supporting the U.S. in this war means more money from the IMF In this case, the U.S. should be our enemy, and Iraq should be our friend. A BBC poll taken in the recent past found that 82% of Turks believe Bush's reelection made the world a more dangerous place. That's the highest figure in any country surveyed. Last but not least; 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: Abusing a Muslim is an outrage and fighting against him is disbelief. Jarir, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated: The Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) asked me on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage to make the people silent and then said: Do not return to disbelief after me by striking the necks of one another. Abu Bakrah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When two Muslims confront each other and the one among them attacks his brother with a weapon, both the murderer and the murdered will get into Hell-Fire. He (Ahnaf, one of the narrators) said: I said, or it was said: Messenger of Allah, it may be the case of one who kills, but what about the slain (why he would be put in Hell-Fire)? Thereupon he said: He also intended to kill his companion. Mathsson wrote:
Quote:
Many Turkomans in Iraq are also Shiites, but the Turkish government does not hesitate to advocate their rights on the grounds that they are the same ethnicity as the Turks of Turkey. The problem is that they don't want to accept the fact that Turkey does not belong to Turks only, but both to Turks and Kurds, given that at least 25% of the Turkish population is actually Kurdish. Therefore, even when you speak in ethnical terms only, Kurds are our brothers in ethnicity as strongly as Turkomans are. However, as you have expressed very well, what actually matters is the brotherhood in Islam, not in ethnicity. But the secular elite of Turkey will not understand this. Mathsson wrote again:
Quote:
Again as to this sentence of yours, sister Gulsum. I think you worry about how the Islamic segment of the Turkish society will feel about the Shiite brothers in Iraq. Although I have lost faith in Turkish Muslims to a great extent, I don't think that they will be so immature. However, what the Islamic segment of the Turkish society will feel about all of the matter will not affect the actual actions of the Republic of Turkey. It has become clear that Tayyip Erdogan will not be able to do anything helpful or reasonable for Muslims... What we need is a great Islamic Enlightenment movement here in Turkey, which will make the practising Muslims among us conscious enough and the non-practing Muslims more informed of what Islam is actually about. Certainly, all the present movements have failed. They believe in politics and in total, dogmatic domination on young people. I have lost faith in them completely. Because I have always been humiliated by our brothers who are jamaah- and tariqah-members, I don't think I will ever want to marry a hijabi Turkish woman, who will probably be like her male counterparts in terms of a chosen-ness psychology and consequent arrogance. Abu Turaba wrote in reply to Turkgirl:
Words of wisdom as usual from Turkgirl, mathsson and the rest. The top-selling novel in Turkey right now is a work of fiction describing just this hypothetical US attack and invasion of Turkey over the Kurdish issue in Northern Iraq. It's called Metal Firtina (Metal Storm?) and selling like lahmajun in all the political and intellectual centers of the country, both secular and Islamic, since the fear of such American aggression is feared by all regardless of ideology. It's very interesting that Russian and the EU actually come to the rescue of Turkey in this novel any way.
Here's a link to a good article about the subject. http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0215/p01s04-woeu.html It's also interesting to note that the Americans are increasingly looking on their erstwhile staunch Turkish NATO allies with suspicion. In the current season of the show 24, the Muslim terrorists in California are Turkish and the origin of the dirty bomb in the recent HBO/BBC movie called Dirty War was in Istanbul. InshaAllah may Allah stregthen this vital bulwark of the Muslim Ummah and unite and empower us even better than we were in the days of the Osmali [i.e. Ottomans]. Mathsson replied to Abu Turaba:
It's fascinating that you know of this book better than me while, although I am a Turk living in Turkey, even I was too lazy to examine carefully.
But just like any ordinary Turkish guy interested in politics at least a little, I was attracted by the cover of the book immediately. I think most other Turks are like me in that I'd love Americans to be terribly annoyed by our lack of gullibility regarding the "purity" their intentions towards us. But this may make the Turkish-American War closer, I am afraid. As our Prophet says, "Do not want to fight powerful enemies. But when you have to, remember that Paradise is under the shade of the Swords." Russia and EU coming to the help of Turkey? Never ever can it possible! It was first and foremost the Russians and then other Europeans who destroyed masses of our people (Turkish and other) in Europe and elsewhere, and even wanted to annihilate the Ottoman-Turkish nation at his very home in NW Turkey. The descendants of the Ottomans have never forgotten the centuries of Russo-European alliance against their fathers, and perhaps they never will. Abu Turaba wrote:
Thank you all for your awfully kind words and rep points. I consider myself a Turkophile of sorts or more accurately an Osmanli Irredentalist, if u will. I studied the history of the Osmali in college and subhanAllah there is much to be proud of and aspire to emulate there, despite all the typical flaws of any empire. Even OBL mentions 1924 as a significant sad turning point in the history of the Ummah. I don't even like calling them Ottomans, for one they r not Germans, despite all the Turks in Germany now (lol, who needs Vienna, we will skip them and go right for Berlin ) and it shows u the thinly veiled contempt they have for us when they name a piece of furniture to rest one's feet on an "Ottoman." I agree with our psychotic teddy buddy, I think in all the talk of oil in the middle east we lose sight of the fact that the most precious thing for millennia in that area has been water. Turkey already exports water to Israel and controls significant water shed regions of Tigris, Euphrates and several smaller rivers. May well be the cause of future armed conflict. I advise all of u interested in the subject to try and read another fascinating book. It's called "The Peace to End All Peace - The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and Creation of the Modern Middle East." It's by David Fromkin, who is a typical British Orientalist type but it's the best work I have ever come across, at least in English. Not an easy read though, very complicated story, took me a couple years to get thru it all. Edited by Mustafaa |
||
There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
|
||
Suleyman
Senior Member Joined: 10 March 2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 3324 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh, David,the issue is so acute for me;i scare to making an wrong comment;because there are many points which can't see in the game...i am watching the game from an interesting point coming from one of my parent(a close one) who is the leader of nationalist movement party and who was the former co-prime minister of the previous government.There are so many things which we don't know and explaining my thoughts and experiences on the issue will not be good for me;)no need...All i know is we should unite inside the name of Islam leaving our sected names and visions... Coming to Israel and US Army in Iraq;i can honestly say that if the Turkish army wants to kick them out from the North Iraq,three days will be enough for them for protecting the united Iraq...i trust my hidden sources and they are ready to do...US Army is sleeping and does not know the real picture...i wish they will not pass the redlines...Amin;this will not be good for the bothside...hardwork...
Edited by Suleyman |
||
Mustafaa
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2001 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 986 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think America will not establish Oil-istan, err, Kurdistan before it invades Iran and Syria as well. Then everywhere around Turkey will be full of American soldiers, and Americans will easily add much of Turkey to the newly founded state of Kurdistan. I hope Americans will be smashed in the Middle East before they do that, and won't succeed in making Turks and Kurds fight each other. But David, please first read my above post. Edited by Mustafaa |
||
There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
|
||
DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I read the post again, thank you for reposting it.
My reading of the UIA and PKK alliance is that it will make it easier for Iraq to unite and for the US to leave Iraq, but at the expense of Turkish security. I don't think Kurds and Turks fighting are in the US interest. All the US needs is to to ensure that the oil cannot be cut off. Price is not an issue. This demands political stability and a Kurdish/Turkish war would be a bad thing for the US. DavidC |
||
Suleyman
Senior Member Joined: 10 March 2003 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 3324 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
David,there will be no war between Kurds and Turks;we can't compare a nation with the persons living under the tents separated into 10.000 pieces....you can talk about Turkish/USA war but;we have no chance of saying,comparing a group with a country who has a past more than 5000 years having the world's second big army...please,search on more about Turkey....there will be no war with kurds only can be with Israel and USA,whenever the turkish army wants to kick them out;it will be only for united Iraq,not for it's benefits while they are sitting on the oil,Turks are permanent nation as Aleem Maulana Maududi stated in his tafseer which is called Tafheem'ul Qur'an...we don't use force for money and oil,just for peace and happiness.....Wa Salaam. |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |