I thought Muslims did not believe in intercessors

Ram was provided to replace the son Abraham was about to offer for sacrifice. The Quran affirms that and so does what's left of the O/T.

Word momentous, tremendous, feast sacrifice are traslated words each according to that individual's understanding and can be debated.

I have mentioned this before that as a custom of the mountain shepherds, when they offer in sacrifice, whether for their guests or a celebration, they don't cut the bad animal, instead the best of the herd as they honor their guests. Don't it occur to you that if a shepherd is so generous to offer the most healthy and perfect from defects animal, are you stingy to think that the Lord of the Universe would not provide a great feast sacrifice animal, a greater ram than a sheperd can. And that's what the Arabic word in this verse is used " Azeem" or great in English.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 29 May 2008 at 3:09pm

The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

LOL! yes Shasta!!

OK , the translation is wrong in that the word is too strong and should not mean -momentous, vital, critical, crucial, serious.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

believer wrote:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/introduction/wasiti/taimiyah_7.html

Ash-Shafa'ah (The Prophets Intercession)

And he (Muhammad) (peace be upon him) has three intercessions to perform on the Day of Resurrection:

His first intercession will be on behalf of the people still held for judgment, after all Prophets, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, the son of Mary, have passed over intercession and it reaches him (Muhammad).

His second intercession will be on behalf of the people of Paradise in order that they may enter it. These two intercessions are unique to him.

His third intercession is to be on behalf of those who warrant Fire. This intercession is for him (Muhammad), for all prophets and saints and for others, so that they may intercede on behalf of those who deserve Fire, preventing them from entering it, and on behalf of those who have entered into the Fire, taking them from it. Allah, The Exalted, out of His Generosity and Mercy, sends some people out from the Fire without intercession. Space will be left unfilled in Paradise, so Allah will create more people for it, and bring them into it.

The Hereafter includes judgment, reward, punishment, Paradise and Hell. These are mentioned in detail in the Revealed Books from heavens, in the tradition of the prophets, and in the inherited knowledge from Muhammad (peace be upon him) what is sufficient and satisfactory (in this regard), and whoever wishes to seek it can find it.

Believer . . . what Muslims mean when they say that they dont believe in itercessors is that unlike other religions, they have a direct relationship with God, that is not dependent on the intercession, or mediation of any other thing, person or bieng.

Which means that Muslims can pray to Him directly, ask Him directly fro forgiveness and are not dependent on a third party (like a clergy-man) for knowing God's "Will" . . .or what God "wants" them to do. Which I find is refreshing compared to other religions.

Another interpretation of intercession is that God alone decides the fate of His people . . .and no Holy-Man, Guru or whatever has the Power to "intercede" in behalf and ensure Heaven or Salvation for that person. Thus eliminating the need to"please" any worldly or beyong party.

What the above ahadith (assuming they r authentic. Have yet to look them up) portay is the fact that Prophet Muhammad was always deeply concerned about the fate of his people. . . and it is foretold that he will try to intercede, and plead with God to forgive some of his followers. Again . . . it no where states that Prophet Muhammad has any power to forgive his followers or ensure them a path to heaven. Only thier actions and relationship with God will do that.

If Allah wills, He may accept Prophet Muhammad's plea or He may not. Walla hu alam, Only Allah knows. And to any fellow muslims who may be horrified at me saying that . . . I'd like to quote an incident from Prophet Muhammad's life, when his beloved non-muslim Uncle, Abu-Talib was on his death-bed . . .

al-Bukhari :

        Narrated Al Musaiyab : When Abu Talibs death approached, the
        Prophet ( saw ) went to him while Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin
        Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet ( saw ) said : ' O
        Uncle, say : None has the right to be worshipped except Allah,
        so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah. ' On
        that Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said : ' O Abu Talib !
        Do you want to renounce Abdul Muttalib's religion ? ' Then the
        Prophet ( saw ) said, ' I will keep on asking ( Allah for )
        forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so. '

And he continued to pray for his forgiveness, after which a verse in the Qur'an was revealed, that clearly implies, that despite even the plea/intercession of Allah's beloved Prophet, the decision is Allah's alone :

It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that
        they should pray for forgiveness for pagans even though they
        be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are
        the companions of the fire. [ 9 : 113 ]

So to conclude . . .Muslims strive to please Allah alone, and any belief in intercessors will not do them good. . . because thier fate lies in Allah's hands alone. If they want to be salvaged, they should depend on thier deeds on earth, rather then not-doing anything, thinking an intercessor will save them.