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my mom wont let me marry him |
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Hayfa 
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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 Posted: 14 November 2006 at 10:41am |
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We all come from the same source, and hence we will return. Maybe if we all intermarry our children will have fewer and fewer of these negative ideas? Plus there is this I do not want to lose this culture, that culture.. we are such a small drop in the ocean.. 1000 years from now what will be, will be. Most of it will have been altered and changed. �Culture� is nice but is should it be the driving force? I agree with brother Isrifil, culture and identity are all tied to many factors. Plus if you outright reject a person based upon pre-conceived ideas based upon racial / cultural identity if that Islamic? I agree that it is best to not make a major decision in a time of grief if one can help it. |
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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hakeema
Groupie 
Female Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 11:24am |
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[QUOTE=abuayisha]
Sadly and unfortunately this thread is becoming derailed by a discussion on race relations. We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man. I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.
As-Salaam Alaikum,
I noticed in your first reply to her you talked about race, and how people of different races shouldn't marry each other. Why did you make that comment if race is an inapprociate topic. You obviously thought it was appropriate, but when others disagreed with what you sad all of a sudden it became inapprociate
I just wanted to say to Sister Angelino if you are around. I would follow Sister UmmAminata's advice she gave very good advice to you, and get your college education. If you decide to marry this brother. I would talk to people who are in successful interracial marriage. I am in an interracial marriage myself as I stated before, and I am happy with my husband. He is very good muslim brother, and he treats me nice. You can pm me if you like. There are other sisters on here who are in interracial marriages and they are also happy with their husbands. A lady that I work with at my job is a white american and her husband is Mexican. They have been married for twenty-five years. In my opinion I think the only people you should seek advice regarding interracial marriage is people who are in it, as Sister UmmAminata also stated.
Hakeema Edited by hakeema |
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abuayisha
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Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 12:15pm |
This is a classic case of projecting your own feelings on someone else. Perhaps having people agree with you is important. I have little interest in being agreed with here. Clarity is what is important and the life of this young woman who sought our help. Some Americans are very sensitive to race issues and in this discussion it is misplaced. So, "sigh" I guess I'm not making myself clear. |
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 1:11pm |
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To any African or African American young men or women, if you want to marry a Muslim from another ethncity or culture, and if their family and community feels this way or worse, for the sake of your future offspring don't due it. You owe it to your children to create a loving, and nurturing enviournment. In cases like this the grand parents have disowned you so that means that a) they have disowned the children b) they are in and out or c) they are present but are emotionally abusive. Just know that if this is what it takes or worse to marry who you want to marry, they don't deserve you, you are worth more than that, and will be appreciated else where. Don't ruin your life, you have dunya once but ahkirah is forever. Remember that our ultimate passion, the ultimate devotion, is for our Master Yal-Malik. Don't bend over backwards allowing people to abuse you. Remeber your family as well. These individuals don't even take your family's feelings into consideration. I guess they don't exist like you don't exist. Allah has made this earth vast and spacious, there are other fishes in the sea. You need to enter a marriage with the unconditional love, support, and confidence of your families. I'd also add, this young man should consider this whole situation a blessing from Allah, and so should you if you are going through the same thing or worse. Consider yourself being rescued from being forever bonded to a family and community who will never accept or respect you. This is a blessing in disguise. Salaam
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 1:20pm |
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Brother Abuayisha, Hakeema is not projecting her personal feelings onto you. You are becomming paranoid and defensive because you know you are wrong. You are in a deep state of denial about what type of person you are. You can't change what you don't acknowledge. Let's see how you have projected your own feelings onto a stranger: I believe that most successful marriages are those in which couples share common ethnicities. You brought up ethnicity first..
If you are unable to secure approval heed their advice and do not marry the African American It may be just me but the way you write " The African American" sounds awfully cold .. I think it is important to mention, that many times when attraction relationships are developed, it through un-islamic means: dating, frequent e-mails/telephone contacts, flirting and physical contact. All of these are not appropriate for someone who is "very religious" Projection? How's this for projection? Did she ever imply this was going on? You have put down a brother you don't even know? E-mails and telephone calls are not harram or un islamic. Being alone with the other is harram or unislamic.
Will this man be there for you when your family isn't?:"We told you not to marry him" will be their response. Well according to you her family sure won't be. That's real mature and Islamic! Way to go! Hip Hip Hurray!!! Tha'ts how you resolve problems just run away from them. Are you implying that because he is black he won't be there for her? What else are we supposed to think? You will be forced to depend to heavily upon your husband for support. Men are very supportive before marriage and up until the honeymoon ends, but afterwards will he possess the level of maturity necessary for such a relationship? I respectfully disagree with you. This isn't even true for most men. Are you saying that he won't possess the level of maturity required because he's black? If it were because of his youth, you have good arguement depedening on his backbround experience. continued.. |
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 1:26pm |
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We have a young girl who has recently lost her father, she is not in school and wanting to marry an African American man. I am really troubled by her situation and feel that much of the specious arguments about race are inappropriate.
If you are truly concerned for her, than why don't you deal directly with the issue of dealing with her grief/loss issues and seeking support? I've never saw you write anything about that? The truth is you're concerned about her marrying "The African American." And you make seem to suttley imply through other statements that this young man is some how manipulating her or taking advantage of her. Projection yet again! Maybe this man is sincere in his intentions of marriage. Maybe they have bonded because perhaps he understood her feelings of loss and grief more than anyone around her? Maybe he doesn't realize or even know proper Islamic adab? Maybe he's trying to play the hero because he feel bad! Allahualim but I'm going to remain committed to believing this young man is honerable and does care for her. Also, let's not ever forget, the one who rocks the cradle rules the world, women of any age, can be very controlling, pushy, and also manipulating for all we know, it could be her more than him. Salaam I call it a truce!
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Mrs. Dia
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UmmAminata
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Joined: 21 October 2006 Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Posted: 14 November 2006 at 1:54pm |
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Sister Angelino This is my last post to you concerning this issue. If you care for my humble attempts to offer support feel free to pm me. Aside from this crazy racail arguments, I wanted to talk about your feelings. You have just lost your farther, and you may unconsciously be seeking a farther figure to cope with you grief. It's normal for girls your age to do this if they loose a farther during this time. I really, really, want you to be totally real with yourself, and ask yourself why you want to get married now? I want to make sure that you know there is no love like a farthers love. A husband can never compare. He won't be able to give you that type of love. Don't use marriage as an escape from your grief and loss over your farther, it will backfire on you, not because this man is black, but because you will eventually work through your stages of grief and become healthy in which you may regret your decision for a number of reasons. I really really encourage you see a grief counselor, even if it's at church! It's important that you sort through that first before becomming a wife and a mother, give your marriage a good start and a real chance. Secondly, you mentioned you weren't in school. The more educated you are, the better a wife and mother you can be. Your education will serve as a type of insurance bond, available to use if y ou should ever need it. College is a wonderful experience. I did not attend college traditionally, but I still enjoy my studies very much. You may want to consider college, or vocational school prior to marriage. Once you become a mother that's it. Some women can multi-task with out it negatively affecting the child and some can't do it. The less committments you have the easier it may be. And if as being predicted here your family is going to abandon you, your education is even more crucial. On the issue of your family abandoning you, this will come back to kick you in your but if you don't have a strong, and trustworthy support system for your self, and the marriage. Note, there should be two seperate support systems here. Childbearing, illness, disability, death, or just the lemons of life, will require that you have support so that you can meet the demands. The last thing you want is to become both internally and externally depleted! I'd try to rally any family to your side that you can and ask for a pledge of support. And finally, if you know how important your family is to you, and you want them and him, ask yourself how much you care about his happiness, will they abuse him or the children? Will they make life miserable and unbearable? That alone can cause allot of strain on the marriage. Will they harm your children's emotional and spiritual well being? Only you know the truth here. If the anserw is yes, think about how that will him and your offspring feel. If your not strong enough to cope with it and not allow it to control your marriage and life, than you really shouldn't do it. It would just be a divorce waiting to happen. And finally, be careful sister, be very careful with your life. Some decisions can't be undone. Salaam |
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Mrs. Dia
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 15 November 2006 at 2:23pm |
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Mr Abuayisha, It appears that you are digging yourself in a depper hole. This situation perhaps is not solely about race, but at the same time we only know what we know based on the information that is provided. You constantly attempt to draw on other things when your position is refuted. You barely mentioned her father in one sentence! You said: We are very sorry to hear that you lost your father and certainly your uncles and mom must feel an extra sense of responsiblity concerning your affairs. Now its obvious that when your position is threatened you then now mention that the forum here is not about race but about other issues, yet the situation is about race! The situation that is being commented on is done so based upon the information that this young lady has provided. If this young lady says that she wants to marry someone non-Arab and her family doesn't want her to marry a non-Arab then, with that being said I'll take it for what it is. I apologize to Ms. Angelino and you have my condolences on the loss of your father. I'm sure your at a difficult position. What I can say which I agree with Mr. Abuayisha is that do not make choices based on pure emotion. You must calculate your priorities and what you want. If you wish to marry, then do so but approach that decision cautiously and KNOW your consequences if you choose to go that route. Forget interracial marriages because marriage in itself is hard. I've never been married but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some unhappy married couples who fight over differences. I believe that if the gentleman was an Arab I'm sure Mr. Abuayisha's remarks would be a whole lot different. It's sad to see that people like Mr. Abuayisha and those who think like this respectable individual.....I call him respectable because regardless of my difference he is still respectable. The saddest thing we males can teach our women is to judge other human beings on the outside. Even the money issue bugs me. The Islamic criteria of a man in regards to supporting his wife is being a provider. To be a provider doesn't mean you have to be educated or even be wealthy. For some, this type of family structure is an innate trait in all humans. When we start getting into the particulars of what a potential mate should be then we are thinking based on "feeling" and what our ethnic culture tells us. As Mr. Abuayisha admits most of his statements are based on "feelings" these emotions are definitely subject to fallibility of course. But what I've learned in this life in the 24-going on 25 years I've been on this planet is thaty no matter how many valid arguments you can present to these individuals their mindset will not change. The best advise I can provide for this young lady is to sit down with your parents and discuss your feelings. Tell them how you feel and how their approach to this young man makes you feel. DO NOT DO THINGS TO MAKE OTHERS HAPPY! If we all go through life doing things to make others happy whether its marrying someone other people think is good for us, our choices would be null and would not be sincere. For example if I help people across the street only because I know I'm being watched by others and they'll be happy with me my actions are not of my own but from my vanity. I as a Westerner do not think marrying someone just because our parents choose them is a good idea because it robs us from our own free choices. I can at least value that in American society. I'm glad I live in a country where my surrounding and my country does not force me to choose options not of my own construct. I'm glad America has many diverse cultures because it gives me not only option but it also educates me in cultural relations. Only TRADITIONAL Arabs Europeans, Asians (South Asians) and those in between think about particulars such as honor, wealth, status, education but if all these are not perform within the confines of Islam they are all for naught. Happiness excels far great than wealth or what an individual's status is. Don't look at statistics but write yout own history. Ok I'm done with this...Finally!
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hakeema wrote: