Was Islam spread by the sword?

Hughes wrote: I asked a simple question. Did your prophet say those words or not?

I have got a gut feeling you are being intentionally funny.
First of all, 'you' didn't ask anything, all you did was copy paste an argument from a known islamophobe site. When I have answered all your points, in detail, all you have done is repeat your question! What, are we going round in circles?

Your answer was to attempt to put into context for him saying those words (I'm thinking that's what you were doing).

Are you for real !
Were you expecting me to answer in 'Yes/No' only? Period? Well you should have mentioned that, I never leave my answer without an explanation, leaves room for ambiguity.Anyway, I do apologize for wasting your precious time, hoping you may learn better than to trust any random statement from anti islamic sources..Sarcasm intended.

However, I wouldn't even have asked that question if we didn't have examples of "apostates" today, being put to death or sentenced for death simply for changing their religion. These apostates haven't done anything wrong, as per your example, in a war or trying to hurt Islam. All they did was leave Islam. Islam isn't threatened if these people are simply allowed to leave, are they?

Again you are going back in circle. If you remember you started your discussion with honor killing. And I told you that there are some Muslim, who do wrong just as there are  Christian who do wrong, but there maybe nothing in scripture to support them. So yes, if a Muslim country kills a peaceful apostate, who is not plotting against the country or spreading corruption, then they are doing wrong, since it is against Qur'an.

The Islamic states that are putting these people to death use your prophets statements in their books of Law. So maybe you should explain to them that they are taking him out of context.

I live in India, here we have Shariah law for Muslims in some respect, but complete freedom of religion. So you want me to pack my bags, go to those country who are taking prophet's statement out of context and 'explain' them...seriously man, are you for real ?! We live in Earth, this planet has 200+ country, many of them ruled by greedy, capitalistic, and crazy leaders who for personal gratification are ready to kill fellow humans as well as sell their own states. Did I mention Majority of these Country has Christian brethren...how about you start a tour first?

Until then it remains clear that Islam is spread by the use of force.

Another great logic.
What you are saying is that if Islamic States kills apostates then they are SPREADING Islam? How?
Apostate are ex-Muslims already, if you kill them or not kill them, how does it affect the number of Muslims in anyway?
Spread by force means forcing someone to convert, like what early Christian did to Jews, or what Spanish Inquisition did to Muslims and Jews, or what happened in Philippines.

What does Deuteronomy 13:6-10 and 2 Chronicles 15:13, have to do with Islam being spread by the sword?

A fair use of tu quoque, don't you agree?

Edited by Dayem - 09 March 2012 at 12:41pm

Dayem wrote: Hughes wrote: I asked a simple question. Did your prophet say those words or not? I have got a gut feeling you are being intentionally funny. First of all, 'you' didn't ask anything, all you did was copy paste an argument from a known islamophobe site. When I have answered all your points, in detail, all you have done is repeat your question! What, are we going round in circles? Your answer was to attempt to put into context for him saying those words (I'm thinking that's what you were doing). Are you for real ! Were you expecting me to answer in 'Yes/No' only? Period? Well you should have mentioned that, I never leave my answer without an explanation, leaves room for ambiguity.Anyway, I do apologize for wasting your precious time, hoping you may learn better than to trust any random statement from anti islamic sources..Sarcasm intended. However, I wouldn't even have asked that question if we didn't have examples of "apostates" today, being put to death or sentenced for death simply for changing their religion. These apostates haven't done anything wrong, as per your example, in a war or trying to hurt Islam. All they did was leave Islam. Islam isn't threatened if these people are simply allowed to leave, are they? Again you are going back in circle. If you remember you started your discussion with honor killing. And I told you that there are some Muslim, who do wrong just as there are� Christian who do wrong, but there maybe nothing in scripture to support them. So yes, if a Muslim country kills a peaceful apostate, who is not plotting against the country or spreading corruption, then they are doing wrong, since it is against Qur'an. The Islamic states that are putting these people to death use your prophets statements in their books of Law. So maybe you should explain to them that they are taking him out of context. I live in India, here we have Shariah law for Muslims in some respect, but complete freedom of religion. So you want me to pack my bags, go to those country who are taking prophet's statement out of context and 'explain' them...seriously man, are you for real ?! We live in Earth, this planet has 200+ country, many of them ruled by greedy, capitalistic, and crazy leaders who for personal gratification are ready to kill fellow humans as well as sell their own states. Did I mention Majority of these Country has Christian brethren...how about you start a tour first? Until then it remains clear that Islam is spread by the use of force. Another great logic.What you are saying is that if Islamic States kills apostates then they are SPREADING Islam? How?Apostate are ex-Muslims already, if you kill them or not kill them, how does it affect the number of Muslims in anyway?Spread by force means forcing someone to convert, like what early Christian did to Jews, or what Spanish Inquisition did to Muslims and Jews, or what happened in Philippines. What does Deuteronomy 13:6-10 and 2 Chronicles 15:13, have to do with Islam being spread by the sword? A fair use of tu quoque, don't you agree?

The comparison to Christianity doesn't help your situation since Jesus never taught his followers to kill, which Muhammed did do.

Now, if your region of the world doesn't have these "false" muslims (for lack of a better term), and the violence that goes with it, then I'm happy to hear that. However, what I have observed is the "true" muslims often get shouted down or worse, by these "false" muslims, which leads in the end, to a group led by force and violence.

So, while you may argue that Islam isn't spread in your country by the sword now, it certainly was in the beginning by Muhammed.

The comparison to Christianity doesn't help your situation since Jesus never taught his followers to kill

Why do you Bible thumpers lie go and read your Bible.


Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Luke 19:26-28






So, while you may argue that Islam isn't spread in your country by the sword now, it certainly was in the beginning by Muhammed.



Prove it

Empiricist wrote: .    As for Islam, we see today in Egypt and other places the push to remove the Christians.

Actually Egypt is home to  some of the oldest generations of Christians in  the world. Egypt has a significant number of Coptic Christians that have been living there for centuries. They were never disturbed, moved  or forcibly converted the past centuries that the Muslims ruled Egypt. They didn't even choose to fight against the Ottomans or Muslim Caliphate during the crusades... If they had faced any sort of problems,  they would have migrated to other lands like the Armenians or Jews.

In Saudi Arabia, a cross is forbidden.

In the Vatican City, women cannot wear short shorts. In China, proselytizing Religions is monitored and controlled. You cannot bring Bibles or Qur'ans in large numbers to China. In France the cross is forbidden in schools, so is the Hijab and other religious symbols.  In India you cannot slaughter cows publicly or sell meat in many restaurants. Why? Cultural sensitivity and local laws.

However I don't think Christians are forbidden from owning crosses and practicing religion in S.Arabia. Public displays of crosses are probably forbidden.

However apart from Saudia Arabia, no other muslim country has these laws.

In Iraq most of the Christians have left.

Even after Operation Iraqi Freedom? ;) I don't blame 'em! Iraq is not a very safe place these days... even for muslims. Those who can emigrate, should! Muslims and non-muslims alike.

In the Quran, the Christians must pay a fee to remain.  Does this make any sense?

You mean pay taxes? Makes sense, yes.

In a Shairah State - the Non-Muslims (incl. Christians) are exempted from serving in the Army, exempted from Islamic Restrictions that apply to Muslims only, and exempted from other forms of taxes that ONLY Muslims pay (such as Zakat, Fitra, etc).

A non-Muslim can choose to not serve in the army of its Muslim government and instead pay a Jizya which ensures that the Muslim Army will protect that non-Muslim community from other armies. A clause that many muslims living in the West wished existed. (choosing not to fight certain wars).

Unfortunately the Muslims are doing the same thing, saying they honor Jesus but still denying him..

Denying him in what way?

We Muslims believe that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was a beloved Prophet of Allah/God. His mother was a woman of exceptional character. An entire chapter in the Quran is dedicated to his mother Mary, wherein Allah describes the pain and troubles she went through giving birth to him.  We believe Jesus was a mortal man and He believed in One God. We also love Jesus so much that Muslim men are supposed to dress like Jesus (and all the other Prophets like him.  Peace be on them all). Muslim  men have beards like Jesus, wear loose clothes like Jesus and believe in one God like Him. Muslim Women dress like the Mother of Jesus, wear a Hijab/Veil and guard their chastity like Mary.

How else do you reflect love and belief in a Prophet?